Thread Tools
Mar 15, 2018, 07:11 AM
Registered User
Monza Red's Avatar
Thread OP

Baron 1914. The Reserve Model and the Competition Wing.

Last year I built a Baron 1914, a classic French trainer dating from the 1970s and based on a WW1 monoplane with massively increased tail surfaces which makes the model look all out of proportion like something in a children's cartoon. If Dick Darstadly were to fly an aeroplane he would fly a Baron.

I converted the model to accept ailerons and finished it in spoof Russian colours. It's fitted with an OS 40FS but I haven't flown it yet because the weather has been unsuitable or I have had other committments. For those who are interested this is the build blog:

However, I had my entry for the Coupe Des Barons, (Barons'Cup,) accepted last month and was given the competition number 247 which means that I am the 247th pilot to enter the competition since it started and I will retain this number for life. There will be about 80 pilots at the event on 2nd June. To give you some idea of what the Coupe Des Barons is all about, have a look at this:
Coupe des barons 2016 à Saint Marie d'Alloix (6 min 58 sec)
or this:
coupe des barons 2012 (8 min 39 sec)
. If I were to say that the event produced a number of damaged models each year I could be accused of understatement! There are four seperate tests on the day:

1. Baguettes in which several one metre long balsa sticks are pushed into the ground. You take off with up to nine other contestants and the one who knocks over the most sticks in a ten minute period, wins the round.
2. Pylon this is just a pyon race against whatever models have survived round 1.
3. Renard This is held after a typically French lunch and takes the form of trying to cut off a streamer towed by a 40 sized trainer.
4. Limbo. You have to fly underneath an enlarged soccer goal. The one who does it most times in ten minutes is the winner.

However, ailerons are banned in the event so I will have to build another wing for the competition, hence "the Competition Wing.". All models must have a pilot, a machine gun and a set of dummy wing warping wires. Then a thought occurred to me, "What if I pranged the model the week before the event? It would be useful to have a spare wouldn't it?" Having missed a couple of ready-built Barons on the internet I have decided to accept the offer of a club colleague who has a partly built Baron in his workshop. Being an ex-patriot Englishman I am going to finish this one in inter-war RAF colours but I have a dilemna about whether to fit an electric motor or a two-stroke engine.

There would be fewer problems of reliability if I were to opt for electric power but I'm an i/c man at heart. The rules of the competition limit the size of two stroke engines to a 35. I have two engines which would suit. A Chinese SC 32 which I've just run in and which runs well and a Merco 35. If you turn up with a 1970s engine you get a few extra points but the extra speed would be useful in at least some of the events.

Your advice is eagerly sought.
Last edited by Monza Red; Mar 15, 2018 at 07:31 AM.
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Mar 16, 2018, 02:31 AM
Registered User
Monza Red's Avatar
Thread OP
In summary gentlemen my dilemna is this.

Do I fit a Merco 35 and get the extra few points for having a period engine?

Do I fit the SC 32 and have the extra power?

Or do I fit an electric motor to the reserve model thereby avoiding any chance of engine malfunction on the day?

I consider myself to be pretty good at setting up engines. I'll be finishing the reserve model in spoof RAF colours and as an expatriate Englishman my heart says fit the British Merco! My head says fit the Chinese electric motor!

I'll have to test run the Merco on the test stand when it stops raining.
Apr 04, 2018, 01:47 AM
Registered User
Monza Red's Avatar
Thread OP
I have decided to fit the 790 Watt electric motor to the reserve model. The Merco wouldn't start! I need to build the tailplane, finish off the wing and cover the model. Watch this space, photos to follow.

Meanwhile perhaps you'd like to look at last year's Coupe.
Last edited by Monza Red; Apr 04, 2018 at 02:47 AM.
Apr 04, 2018, 11:13 AM
B for Bruce
BMatthews's Avatar
That all looks like a huge amount of fun.

I wouldn't mind doing something like that but I'd go for the translucent cream covering and then spray some stain on the wood for the built up rear portion and cover it with clear transparent film of some sort for the look of an old Bleriot. And it would clearly have to have the early French roundels on the wings.

Oh my..... I just remembered that I've got an old OSMax .20FS that I've never run. Scaled down to 48" span and built lightly this would be a really fun model.
Apr 10, 2018, 03:24 AM
Registered User
Monza Red's Avatar
Thread OP
I have included a picture of my Russian Baron 1914 below, OS 40 FS Surpass up front.

I intend to use in this year's Coupe Des Barons, but I have to build another wing, the "Competition Wing," as ailerons are banned in the Coupe. The wing is taking shape. It's perfectly standard apart from the use of a shaped trailing edge and gussets. The kit wing uses balsa strip which you have to plane down to a trailing edge profile.

My only other problem will be which pilot to chose to fly the aircraft. Trenchard is very experienced but perhaps too old for an event like this. Pilot Bear is keen but has lost his goggles. Bader is rather tired. Bleriot is the favourite!

As for the Reserve Model, I have built the tail surfaces and the basic fuselage is complete but as it's been built by a novice it's slightly bananad and the top longeron is curved downwards instgead of being straight. I will have to see what can be done. I will have to build yet another wing for it. I may simplify the structure. This is permitted within the rules as long as you use a Clark Y aerofoil section and the wing is the same plan form as the original +/- 10%.
Apr 17, 2018, 10:04 AM
Registered User
Monza Red's Avatar
Thread OP
You know how it is when you're looking for something and you find something even more useful? Well, I keep a lot of spare parts in two sets of document drawers which were designed for office use. I've placed a building board on top. I can't remember what I was looking for but I found the wing rib of a Super 60. The Super 60 dates from 1959 and has probably taught more British aeromodellers how to fly R/C than any other model until the arrival of foam wing kits and ARTFs. Here's a picture of a couple of mine.

The Super 60's wing has three 1/4" balsa spars, two of which are on top of each other, the other is a supplementary spar about three quarters of the way back. The trailing edge is made up of 1/16" sheet with balsa webbing between the top and the bottom sheet, grain vertical. The top of the wing is sheeted back as far as the mainspars and there is 1/16" webbing between the spars, again, grain vertical. On another website I was advised to build a lighter wing for my reserve model in the Coupe Des Barons competition, I tentatively offered the wing rib up to the Baron plan and they are pretty well the same length!

The Baron has five spars plus two 1/8" turbulators in each wing-half, and it has thirteen wing ribs in each wing-half. The Super 60 has nine ribs in each wing-half and only three spars. Furthermore, Super 60 wings are not famous for clapping their hands, so I'm considering building a Baron wing but using Super 60 wing ribs spaced out to 6.5 cms (2.5") between the ribs. The ribs on the Baron plan are at 4.5cms (1.75") between centres. That way I'll save weight both on the spars and the ribs. The Baron's fuselage and centre section are narrower but that's nothing that cannot be accomodated with a simple mathematical calculation.

Two questions for you highly knowledgeable gentlemen.

1. Should I use full-depth plywood dihedral braces?

2. The Super 60's wing rib is considerably taller than the Baron's rib, about 1 cm or 0.4" taller. Should I make up a set slimmer Super 60 wing ribs or leave things as they are?

The other item in the picture is a cartridge and the remains of a charger clip which I picked up off the Somme Battlefield years ago and it somehow ended up in that drawer. It was obviously issued to some British or British Colonial soldier and never used. If only it could talk eh?

Finally it's been a glorious day here and bare chested, I've dug over the potato patch by hand. Mind you at my age I had to do it in three installments!

Stick Brotherhood # 36
Coupe Des Barons # 247
Last edited by Monza Red; Apr 17, 2018 at 10:28 AM.
Apr 17, 2018, 11:05 AM
B for Bruce
BMatthews's Avatar
A full depth joiner would be highly recommended. I'd also cut away the ribs a little on the center line and first rib bay out to allow for sheeting the center area. But I suspect you were already planning on that step.

Keep in mind too that plywood only has half the layers going in the optimum direction. A slice of some good hardwood like maple, birch or beech would have all the fibers going the proper way and would be ideal for dihedral joiners. You can actually use a brace that is only 2/3's as thick and have more strength than the plywood. Make the "brace" quite long and taper it out for the best results. And the end of the braces should have a fishmouth cut into it as well as being tapered in thickness so it can flex a little with the spars instead of stopping with a stress riser point. Done in that way it'll give you a super strong center section.

The thicker airfoil will aid with holding back the speed during dives. Which could well be a good thing for the tasks that involve getting close to the ground

The spars and "D" tube on the Super's wing ribs is well forward. So the load will be partly shared by the sub spar (not very much) and the built up trailing edge. So don't go too light on that trailing edge wood. Nice firm medium weight that when tested for how it cracks when bent shows a lot of fibers across the break would be my choice.
Apr 17, 2018, 10:59 PM
Registered User
Monza Red's Avatar
Thread OP
Good advice B Matthews. I have some sheet spruce and some basswood but they are 1/8" or 3mm thick. Won't that be a bit thick?

Otherwise I was thinking of using 2mm ply each side of the mainspars.
Apr 18, 2018, 01:08 AM
B for Bruce
BMatthews's Avatar
Spruce and bass are a little soft for a dihedral brace. Think about how the aircraft plywood is birch, a tough but supple hardwood. That's what you want. And no 1/8 or 3mm thick is not too much. It's about right in fact for a model of this size.

2mm each side I think would be a little too light.

To be fair it would likely be fine. But two pieces of 2mm ply would not leave me with a good feeling when I cranked back on the elevator at the end of a fast dive ,
May 31, 2018, 11:38 PM
Registered User
Monza Red's Avatar
Thread OP
Well I never did get round to building the reserve model or the competition wing, that's now a project for next year but I'm off to the competition later today with Baron Boris Buggeroff at the controls. It's a five-hour drive from my home.

The man who first thought of La Coupe is a character called Vincent Saffiotti. Appropriately enough he flies the No.1 model. It is finished in the Japanese colours and for the day he adopts the persona of Tomio Harachi, a fictitious Japanese fighter ace who featured in an American television series set in the 1940s. He even flies in a kamikazi headband!

There were eighty entrants this year and we were all organised into eight groups of ten pilots who will compete against each other in each test. However, thirteen have bottled it so the groups have been re-arranged. I now find myself flying alongside a fourteen year-old girl called Iris Fesquet. She, and her twin sister Clara were competitors last year and two of only fifteen pilots who got through to the end of the event with their models in tact.

I've set myself several targets:

Not to make a horlicks of the first take-off.
Not to crash the model on the first turn through quaking with excitement.
Not to finish dead last.
And finally if I manage to get through to the last minute of the last round I will have a go at an enormous loop especially when encouraged by cries of "Le Looping! Le Looping!" from the assembled half-drunk Gallic hoardes! I don't care if I wreck the model, as I've already said, I plan to have something lighter but stronger for next year.

Doubtless it'll all be filmed so I won't be able to escape your collective censure but I'll report back anyway.

Wish us luck!
Jun 01, 2018, 06:28 AM
'Douglas' to his friends.
Originally Posted by Monza Red
... I'm off to the competition later today with Baron Boris Buggeroff at the controls...
I was tempted to drive over to assist as spectator, but I'm afraid it's a bit too far for my present state of health. Maybe next year..? In any case, you're a better man than I am (Gunga Din...), so Good Luck with the exploit; we'll be eagerly waiting to see any pictorial witness of the event, however brief..!

Jun 01, 2018, 12:46 PM
B for Bruce
BMatthews's Avatar
I'll be waiting for the battle report ! ! ! ! GOOD LUCK! ! !
Jun 04, 2018, 12:46 AM
Registered User
Monza Red's Avatar
Thread OP
Full Battle Report over on RC Universe, posts numbers 5984 and 5987 but in brief I flew too low in the first round and the model flipped onto its back without damage, in the second and third rounds I ran out of battery and had to land before the end of each round, and just before the final round, the "limbo," a small circlip failed at the back of the electric motor and the propeller wouldn't turn so I had to "abandone." I finished 53rd out of 68 entrants but at least I wasn't the first person from my group, Serie 6, to crash, neither did I crash on the first take off through nerves, though my hands were shaking when I assembled the model, neither did I finish dead last, so I achieved three out of my four objectives!

I will post my own reflections on the event later once I've stopped feeling so tired. I can no longer drive a 600 mile round trip sleep or rather not sleep in the back of a van for two consecutive nights using my pack as a pillow without it having consequences!
Aug 28, 2018, 07:27 AM
Registered User
Monza Red's Avatar
Thread OP
Having finished in fifty-third position out of sixty-eight entrants, I have recovered from exhaustion, herewith a few desultory thoughts next year's event.

I fully intend to build a lighter but stronger model for next year's event using the Super 60's wing structure as a base but using a 3cm high aerofoil of the Baron instead of the 4mm high aerofoil of the Super 60. Some have suggested thinning the aerofoil for extra speed but you are only allowed to reduce or increase any dimension fo the Baron by 10%. Would a 10% thinner wing really make that much difference?

Then there's the question of how to power the model. I competed with the model powered by an electric motor using 2200 4S LiPo batteries. I ran out of electricity in the pylon event with one minute to go, otherwise I would have finished in a higher postion. Partway through the third round my motor stopped owing to a small circlip having given way at the rear of the motor. Unfortunately I cannot accomodate a bigger battery in the existing model without moving the servos which is a bit too much grief for the time being at least. As I type this, Boris is powered by an SC32 two-stroke engine fitted with a Weston throttle pipe.

Which leads us on to the question of how to power next year's entry. The engine of choice for the hot shots is the OS 35 AX. This engine produces 1.28bhp and there's nothing in the rules preventing you from fitting some fancy exhaust and using up to 50% nitro! Judging by the way the winner's model went vertical, I expect that he was using both. He certainly had a tuned pipe!

The SC 32 produces 0.92bhp, perhaps a little more with the Weston exhaust so I could fit the SC to the new model and relegate Boris to training duties with a less powerful engine. I am doing a fair bit of instructing at the moment and an extra trainer could be useful.

I am at heart however, a four-stroke man, but the current rules limit the four-stokes to only 0.40 cu.ins. The most powerful 40 four-stroke in production today is the Saito 40 which produces 0.69bhp. So using a four-stroke puts one at an immediate disadvantage. To get the same power from a four-stroke as is produced by the OS 35AX, you'd need to use a 65-70 sized engine. I'll write to the organising committee to see whether they'd consider a change in the rules.

It crossed my mind to enter the event using a PAW 35 diesel and trade on the eccentric Englishman abroad image. You wouldn't win as the PAW 35 only produces 0.60bhp but it could be a laugh!

I expect that I'll just move the servos a bit further back on the next model and fit a bigger battery!

It's only in the pylon event and arguably the streamer cutting round that speed is a factor. Improving my piloting skills would be the best use of my time!

Here's a picture of Boris participating in the pylon event. The white model in the picture is being flown by a fourteen year old girl! If you'd care to have a look at this site you can scroll down to pictures and a video of the 2018 event.
Last edited by Monza Red; Aug 28, 2018 at 12:16 PM. Reason: Pictures
Aug 28, 2018, 07:01 PM
Owner of CFC Graphics
I think the model is outstanding!

Interesting colors and unusual.

All good things.


Quick Reply

Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Build Log Baron 1914 Monza Red Balsa Builders 134 Feb 05, 2019 08:32 AM
Build Log Burgess Dunne , 1914, biplane flying wing lake flyer Foamies (Scratchbuilt) 77 Oct 17, 2008 09:44 PM
Help! 1914 Burgess Dunne , biplane flying wing lake flyer Flying Wings 33 Apr 01, 2007 10:52 PM
Help! Recherche Docs sur BARON 1914 Lapin Blanc France 2 Feb 15, 2007 03:55 AM
Article Model Warplanes 1996, Volume 1: WWI, 1914-1918 jbourke Electric Plane Talk 0 Feb 01, 1998 01:00 AM