some kind of golden age? - RC Groups
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Mar 05, 2018, 03:23 PM
plays with toy planes
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some kind of golden age?


Disclaimer: I'm ~3 years into this, essentially DLG only. So I know nothing. Which is why I ask: are we in the middle of an golden age of DLG design and manufacturing?

Not to take anything away from previous revolutions (such as the D), nor how everything is always built upon the shoulders of giants, but it really seems like things are heating up, coming together, and delivering extraordinary product. There are so many, so very very good, airplanes. Is this a normal or extraordinary pace of innovation?
Last edited by barry d; Mar 07, 2018 at 05:01 PM.
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Mar 05, 2018, 03:45 PM
1 revolution and throw!
a few years ago there where not so many manufacturers , the high end competition gliders needed to be ordered and months passed before it was build and delivered.
pretty logic people saw bread in it so more manufacturers popped up .
GT's work has greatly influenced the dlg scene , as much and even more then Mark drela's supergee which was a killer at that time (that was before my dlg time aswell but i read the stories...)

so many of todays models are work Gerald (GT) put out several years ago , my previous gliders where based on GT's work , i think all Thomas's gliders are based on it , vortex and NXT aswell if i'm correct, fireblade ,and so on..... perhaps more then half of what is flying around at contests today we have partially to thank to Gerald..

i think of it a bit as a hole in the market that is filled now. waiting times got short to non existant these times meaning supply & demand evened out .
Last edited by krikkens; Mar 05, 2018 at 03:57 PM.
Mar 05, 2018, 03:47 PM
Aurora Builder
Hi Barry,

I think we are in a pretty golden age. Before Kristoff sparked the idea of a high aspect ratio DLG with the launch of the XXLite and Kennedy Composites drew up the Snipe and mass produced it starting in 2013, getting quality competition models was really quite painful with limited availability, long lead times and lots of inside deals to get models in a reasonable time frame. This all spurred me to make my own airplanes, a journey which I am thankful I undertook and led to some other opportunities in my personal life, but in todays world I don't think is neccessary as soo many quality models are available (ignoring perhaps the BAMF, which is selling out fast). Stream Team and Armsoar have been leading the charge, perhaps not always in terms of design, but in terms of manufacturing they have led the charge and without their commitment to quality we would not have the amazing airplanes we have today at the same price as pre-molded models.
Last edited by samc99us; Mar 05, 2018 at 05:08 PM.
Mar 05, 2018, 03:50 PM
1 revolution and throw!
Quote:
Originally Posted by samc99us
Hi Barry,

I think we are in a pretty golden age. Before Kristoff sparked the idea of a high aspect ratio DLG with the launch of the XXLite and Kennedy Composites drew up the Snipe and mass produced it starting in 2013, getting quality competition models was really quite painful with lots of inside deals. Stream Team and Armsoar have been leading the charge, perhaps not always in terms of design, but in terms of manufacturing they have led the charge and without their commitment to quality we would not have the amazing airplanes we have today at the same price as pre-molded models
think Vladilmir has the longest and biggest record here , not sure about sales numbers but blaster and snipe combined , well , no one comes close i think....
Mar 05, 2018, 04:19 PM
Come out swinging
sporter's Avatar
Definitely golden age of manufacturing. I think the design golden age may have been a couple of years ago. There are tons of models available now, this was not the case 10 years ago. My guess is that we will see some type of design breakthrough in the next couple of years, then, manufacturing will follow. So, yes, sort of a golden age.

Sean
Mar 05, 2018, 05:10 PM
ThomasLee's Avatar
A thing to consider is economy is no good... lots of people have turned to building models as a source of income in many parts of the world as the rewards have become higher than doing a 'regular' job.

I do think we are in a golden age in terms of quality and availability. I do see over-saturation in the market, and some builders will (unfortunately) realise they can no longer turn a profit and turn to other industries/jobs. I do see the supply coming down slightly in the future (or demand somehow goes up considerably).
Mar 05, 2018, 06:10 PM
The Detritus of Rcgroups
rdwoebke's Avatar
Yes.

Ryan
Mar 05, 2018, 08:26 PM
Transplant Chey WY from Reno
Thermaln2's Avatar
Barry,

I read all the responses above and I hate to throw a wrench into the works, but I have to both agree and disagree with many of the comments. I have been flying HLGs since before Dave Thornburg's first ever contest and although I took a huge break in flying until 2001 when I entered the IHLGF and I went through the overhand to DLG transition, then the bagging wings to molded wing transition and the current conversion to full blown carbon planes. I totally agreed with Krikkens high AR work and attempts, and have seen the planes launch higher and higher. I am totally amazed with how the planes have developed and personally think that the planes have gone into the top and leveling off end of the development curve. Planes nowadays might be improving in fractions of percentage points, but there is not going to be much real improvements going forward unless a completely new approach is taken. I know everyone is going to think this is a downer, but one must really take a close look.

What really drives changes in design?

The "gorillas" will be able to launch all new planes to the same height. (Apologies to Toby, LOL) New planes will come out mainly because any manufacturer knows that versioning drives replacements and sales. When the differences between planes becomes very small, then marketing comes down to getting a great pilot to adopt your plane and win. We used to say this with Joe, hand him a plane and he would beat the heck out of us, not because of the plane but because he was a great flyer. (Joe did I stroke your ego enough?? Inside joke here). But he IS a great flyer and he knows his stuff. Designers, like him, will try to find other opportunities to improve designs, but we are close to the top already and there will not be much differences in the tops. So great pilots will do well with any plane.

Do we need to change events?

Maybe, but once we change events, then planes will morph their properties to adjust to the changes. We resist change so designs will not change much.

Are there any other things to try?

You bet. These things will only be if designers that are not manufacturer try them. Once tried they will be incorporated into a new design as soon a possible. IMHO, anything new that really works will only last one contest.

What might we see?

We will see things that make it easier to transport and control our planes. Already we are seeing 2 piece wings that help with our travel to contest by airplanes. We might see changes in servos, not much changes in RXes because they are small, batteries are smaller and single celled power, so that is good, but the thing will be servos? Why servos? Because we will try to put the servos back into the wing and maybe have some sort of dynamic shaped airfoils. These things might well be just fads that hide not changes, but we will think that they will help. See the Flare with the drooping Les. Really will it be worth it, only time will tell.

There may be alot of other changes, and I have many ideas to try, but they will only be experiments. Designers don’t experiment like they used to, main because w have adopted the pattern that most new planes must be molded, a CNC mold must be done so that we can make some money on our work. In reality, perhaps manufacturing is limiting our progress.

So are we in the golden age of plane? I think we are now beyond the golden age.

But what do I know? 

Chris
Mar 05, 2018, 08:30 PM
plays with toy planes
This is great, thanks Chris.

Thomas nailed what I was wondering about: a golden age in terms of quality and availability. Sure feels like it.

Is there a concise chronology of HLG/DLG design and construction techniques anywhere? I'd love to see, year by year, how things have developed.
Last edited by barry d; Mar 05, 2018 at 08:33 PM. Reason: not sucking
Mar 06, 2018, 01:57 AM
1 revolution and throw!
Quote:
Originally Posted by barry d
This is great, thanks Chris.

Thomas nailed what I was wondering about: a golden age in terms of quality and availability. Sure feels like it.

Is there a concise chronology of HLG/DLG design and construction techniques anywhere? I'd love to see, year by year, how things have developed.
certainly a golden age in terms of availability , i have to disagree on quality tough....at least this is my personnal opinion, 5 years ago it was much better!

reason for it: lightest carbon available back then was 60gr/mē , thicker carbon = better surface !
reason #2 : today manufacturers request lower desnity PMI foam which also contributes to a worse surface .
so all in the name of lightness many manufacturers gave up a lot of quality in return for a plane that everybody puts 20gr of lead in for 95% of the time ...
Last edited by krikkens; Mar 12, 2018 at 06:55 AM.
Mar 06, 2018, 06:51 AM
Closed Account
Great thread and some interesting insights.
Mar 06, 2018, 10:35 AM
Registered User
Completely agree to Kristof. Personally I am not that long into F3k and DLG (for about 5 years now) and I had several DLG. Interesting, that those models from manufacturers,who are not making this large amount of models, had been my best models.
And I also donīt understand this hype for building the lightest model. I would name myself a "heavy hitter" and my average weight of models is about 235 to 245gr. This is the comfort zone, stiff as hell and go well in every condition. Especially in northern germany I can count those dead air days one one hand. There is always wind and then ballast rules. And the golden age is nothing without the curiosity of us all.....come on, guys, we all need new toys, when they are at the market.
And when charming guys like Thomas and Rollo announce new toys...itīs like Pavlovīs dogs...we have to test it and even if itīs only for scientific purposes
And as someone said before....it is the age of globalism!
Mar 06, 2018, 11:27 AM
An Original!
Gliderguy's Avatar
I believe it really depends on whether you are a competitor or a sportsman. It's probably the Golden Age for the competitor. I'm just a sportsman and probably benefit some amount from the advance in technology both of materials and design. I'd have to say though, I think we are in the "Industrial Age" of the DLG and for the most part way out of my league from an economic stand point. Then again I'm just a simple sportsman/hobbyist/enthusiast that loves to build, repair and fly DLGs.
Mar 06, 2018, 11:56 AM
Closed Account
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gliderguy
I believe it really depends on whether you are a competitor or a sportsman. It's probably the Golden Age for the competitor. I'm just a sportsman and probably benefit some amount from the advance in technology both of materials and design. I'd have to say though, I think we are in the "Industrial Age" of the DLG and for the most part way out of my league from an economic stand point. Then again I'm just a simple sportsman/hobbyist/enthusiast that loves to build, repair and fly DLGs.
Stay tuned......
Mar 06, 2018, 12:36 PM
The Detritus of Rcgroups
rdwoebke's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gliderguy
I believe it really depends on whether you are a competitor or a sportsman.
I would say it is a golden age fo both.

Ryan


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