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Sep 16, 2019, 03:10 PM
a.k.a. Bob Parks
There is a stronger tape, Scotch 800. We used it to splice film rolls together. Now they call it 800 Prescription label tape. Not cheap.

https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company-...4773520&rt=rud

available at Uline

https://www.uline.com/BL_6410/3M-800...rotection-Tape
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Sep 16, 2019, 03:29 PM
Registered User
The Scotch 800 is available from Amazon here: https://smile.amazon.com/Scotch-Pres...8665708&sr=8-3

It's not cheap.
Sep 16, 2019, 04:48 PM
I fly, therefore, I crash!!!
SteveT.'s Avatar
What width would you use?

SteveT.
Latest blog entry: My shop....
Sep 16, 2019, 05:16 PM
Registered User
Personally, if I had my druthers, I'd use 3/4" but since they don't sell it in that width, I'd use the 1" tape. If you're talking about wrapping the root of each panel (always a good idea) this is a good width. 1" is a little wide to use for hinging, imho but you use what you can get and this should work just fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveT.
What width would you use?

SteveT.
Sep 16, 2019, 06:39 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by CloudSniffer
Looks like your doing a very nice job. I usually taper the back edge of the rudder to a 1/16 or a little sharper. Then I sand a 45 on the front edge so it pivots off the left edge. Then I use 3M 600 clear tape on both sides. Im not sure how covering will hold up. I would think it would tear pretty easy landing in thicker grass. CA hinges would work well too if you prefer a V on the front of the rudder.
I'll go back and sand the back edge of the rudder on down. Didn't know if that extra thickness was critical or if I could taper it on down. I got my last YJ 2m too thin and couldn't keep the warp out of it. Ended up fabricating some new parts.
I did the Introduction with the covering doing just as you describe the tape and as yet, have not had any issues. But it doesn't extend quite as far below the fuselage level as the YJ rudder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by banjo328
I'm using Ultracote standard weight as the covering/hinge on both the YJ 3.5 and the 1.5 and it is holding up well with no 'side deflection' compared to using tape, Scotch 'Multitask'. (I've never been able to find the 3M tape). Ultracote Lite might have a durability problem but I'm happy with the standard as hinges.
Good to know. I'm going with the standard weight Ultracote as the covering/hinges. I guess if it starts to tear I can always add tape at that point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveT.
Too late now, but one trick I was always taught was to sand a small bevel on the very end of the ribs, so there are no 90 corners the covering to catch on when shrinking, that has always worked well for me.

SteveT.
Good tip to know. Thanks!
Sep 16, 2019, 08:47 PM
I fly, therefore, I crash!!!
SteveT.'s Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by georgeg
Personally, if I had my druthers, I'd use 3/4" but since they don't sell it in that width, I'd use the 1" tape. If you're talking about wrapping the root of each panel (always a good idea) this is a good width. 1" is a little wide to use for hinging, imho but you use what you can get and this should work just fine.
Thanks.

SteveT.
Latest blog entry: My shop....
Sep 17, 2019, 05:40 AM
Registered User
Crash:

I'm playing catchup, still being in Germany.

Sanding blocks: your single best way to save weight, and you appear to be using them correctly. I taper all tail surfaces - that is where weight savings is most critical, right? The longer the block, the more likely you will achieve a straight taper. My goal is a trailing edge of 1/16 inch. I use 3M sandpaper, and a piece of paper on a block is often good for years.

Hinges: I tried Ultracote Lite exactly one time, and it was too difficult to handle for me. So, Ultracote regular for all my covering needs, including all hinges. My Ultracote hinges historically out-last the airplanes they are installed on. If the tail surface is one color, I will use a single piece both sides, and incorporate the covering as hinge: seamless, gap-less, friction-less, durable.

I typically leave the fixed portion of a tail surface hinge line as square as possible. After the moving portion is tapered, I sand a 40-degree bevel with the knife edge opposite the control horn. That's a habit from dlg days, that buries at least a portion of the control horn. On the 3M YJ, I am using control horns of about a half inch, no more, for drag reduction. I use Hitec HS65 servos, and they move everything just fine, even using a servo horn of half inch.

Good luck.

Yours, Greg
Sep 17, 2019, 07:13 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by glidermang
Crash:

I'm playing catchup, still being in Germany.

Sanding blocks: your single best way to save weight, and you appear to be using them correctly. I taper all tail surfaces - that is where weight savings is most critical, right? The longer the block, the more likely you will achieve a straight taper. My goal is a trailing edge of 1/16 inch. I use 3M sandpaper, and a piece of paper on a block is often good for years.

Hinges: I tried Ultracote Lite exactly one time, and it was too difficult to handle for me. So, Ultracote regular for all my covering needs, including all hinges. My Ultracote hinges historically out-last the airplanes they are installed on. If the tail surface is one color, I will use a single piece both sides, and incorporate the covering as hinge: seamless, gap-less, friction-less, durable.

I typically leave the fixed portion of a tail surface hinge line as square as possible. After the moving portion is tapered, I sand a 40-degree bevel with the knife edge opposite the control horn. That's a habit from dlg days, that buries at least a portion of the control horn. On the 3M YJ, I am using control horns of about a half inch, no more, for drag reduction. I use Hitec HS65 servos, and they move everything just fine, even using a servo horn of half inch.

Good luck.

Yours, Greg
Thanks Greg, all makes sense and sounds like we're singing from the same sheet of music as far as the Ultracote hinge. My mistake was putting the angle on the fixed vert. fin as opposed to the rudder, though I think functionally, everything will work the same. I did go back and sand down the rear of the rudder, tapering to about 1/6" per Corky's suggestion.
Sep 17, 2019, 04:24 PM
volare est vivere
ray foley's Avatar

delamination issue


hi there from Toledo!

I have had plywood control horns delaminate when trying to adjust a clevis. So I recommend nylon control horns for added durability. On my YJ3m I used a short Dubro control horn which I pushed thru the control horn slot of the rudder from the other side with half of the mounting foot removed. Then I ca'd the control horn in place. Works great and can never delaminate.

ciao rjf
Last edited by ray foley; Sep 17, 2019 at 04:31 PM.
Sep 17, 2019, 06:12 PM
Registered User
bgreet's Avatar
I think this is the tape that is being discussed.

https://www.amazon.com/Scotch-Brand-...ateway&sr=8-27

I ordered this a few years ago and have used it on countless models. It does not yellow and adhesive has held up well. Down in the product description it lists it as model 600.
Sep 17, 2019, 06:52 PM
Registered User
I decided to add a slight up tilt to the tiplets. Seems to appear more extreme in the photo than it is. Eyeballing it with my angle gauge I'd say about 2 so not a dramatic deviation from the plan but a little more pleasing to my eye.


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The wing is ready for spoiler servo install, sanding , and covering. Well, after I epoxy the tips to the mids.
Sep 18, 2019, 04:32 AM
Registered User
Crash:

Your tips look very nice.

About plywood control horns: I have also had issues with splintering. When I use plywood now, I will make a sandwich of two layers of thin play, with carbon tissue between. In the hole, I insert brass tube secured with medium CA as a no-wear, no-friction bushing. A cut-off wheel in a Dremel let's me make it flush to the plywood.

Greg
Sep 18, 2019, 07:19 AM
Sonoran Laser Art
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by glidermang
Crash:

Your tips look very nice.

About plywood control horns: I have also had issues with splintering. When I use plywood now, I will make a sandwich of two layers of thin play, with carbon tissue between. In the hole, I insert brass tube secured with medium CA as a no-wear, no-friction bushing. A cut-off wheel in a Dremel let's me make it flush to the plywood.

Greg
I haven't had any horns actually break or delaminate but I do dribble CA on the exposed portion before any clevise fitting. What I have had is the horn coming lose in the rudder. On the big kits I supply a 1/64" ply piece to go on each side now so the horn is engaged in ply both sides. I tried cutting G10 with the laser ONCE. The fumes made me feel sick for two days. A guy could made them pretty easy with saw or Dremel and drill.
Sep 18, 2019, 02:04 PM
I fly, therefore, I crash!!!
SteveT.'s Avatar
I was just going to ask about cutting G10. I know you can't cut carbon fiber, but hadn't tried G10 yet.. now I know not to. I do have a good flying buddy than can machine them out of G10 in his CNC mill though if there is any interest. We made some a couple of years ago for the 3DHS 'Big Foot' flaps. and they came out quite nice. I'm sure he could make up a bunch quite at a very reasonable price. The photo shows the flap arms, the ones for the YJ would of course be to the proper shape.
SteveT.
Latest blog entry: My shop....
Sep 20, 2019, 10:41 AM
Registered User
I haven’t done a great deal this week, trying to allow my sinuses to recover. I have an allergy to balsa and in spite of using a respirator, a dust collector AND an overhead air filter, I’ve still been suffering symptoms similar to respiratory infection since I reamed the first ribs.

But I cut all of the joiner rods and connected all the panels. This wing is BIG! Amazingly the angled root and tip ribs that adjoin another panel fits very nicely with no gaps! And I got started sanding ribs finishing one tip panel to 400 grit.

Thought this may be of interest. Drilling for wing bolts.
When building the center panel, I made a pinhole in the sheeting before glueing it down so I could drill the center hole of the plywood doublers on the center rib lamination. I like to line the holes with some material to avoid any wear issues somewhere down the line. I have some graphite arrow shaft which was a bit snug on the wing bolts, and some aluminum tube, which was too loose. Shazam! The left over brass wing joiner tube is just right. Drilled the first hole slightly under sized then sharpened one end of a short length of tube and drilled with it. Now I have a nice tight fit for the tubing to line the hole with.

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Description: The tube cuts a nice crisp hole through the ply sheet without much tearing or splintering like a typical bit would.

Then I used a forstner bit to drill a slight depression to countersink the bolt heads. NOTE, I surrounded the hole with some CA on the balsa sheeting before drilling to help avoid tearing. Unfortunately it was difficult to keep this bit centered over the drill hole and I managed to wallow it out larger than needed. However I doubt it will be noticeable once the wing is covered.
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Description: I use a forstner bit the same diameter as the bolt head and drill through the sheeting so as to countersink the head slightly.


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