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Oct 14, 2021, 05:02 AM
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You will be involved with the house and a new build as you come into your better weather. We are about to start our 7 months of lousy weather here, so, things in this thread will slow to a crawl, more than likely.
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Oct 14, 2021, 04:25 PM
NZ420RC
chemist1111's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kodak_jack
You will be involved with the house and a new build as you come into your better weather. We are about to start our 7 months of lousy weather here, so, things in this thread will slow to a crawl, more than likely.
This is somber thinking. Last night we all had issues during racing.

One gent had his central driveshaft pop out of the front diff input Turns out he had reassembled his front end while neglecting to include the bottom alloy plate that strengthens the front end. I can attest that this is not a good idea. He must have had a decent frontal impact, as one of the screw mounts at the back end of the front diff broke off - never seen that before! Not to mention that the central driveshaft has to move back about 8mm to pop out We put it all back together properly and it was good from there on.

Another gent lost half a rear driveshaft that we couldn't find in short order, so we replaced that with a new one. The metal detector will help with that next time.

Crazy Tony had a front driveshaft dogbone break off near the diff cup end, so we sent him home with a shiny new one to install. He did not seem confident about the process, but I assured him that once you've done a couple you are all good. It does not help that, for him, it will be like us doing it with oven mits on

My motor smelled very electrical and dodgy despite having new brushes, didn't have any grunt in reverse, and was very warm despite being a cold evening. I bought my 2 x Tamiya RZ motors second hand, and they have lasted about 18 months, so I have no cause for complaint. I will investigate its nether regions, however have reconciled myself to replacing it with the shiny new one in the spares box. I suspect the commutators are finally jiggered in them. It did seem to go well in a forwards direction for the evening, but it's time to let it go I suspect.

Despite all of this, we had some excellent close racing with syncronised drifting around the home corner on several occasions: enough to evoke excitement in even the most jaded and emotionally dead individuals, as evidenced by our excitement
Oct 15, 2021, 06:39 AM
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kodak_jack's Avatar
Thread OP
Sounds like a very good time. It sounds as if everybody comes with a semi trailer full of parts. I can imagine the mayhem if they were all different vehicles instead of the heritage green monsters they are. The stiffness needed to keep things from going south, as in last night's race, is accomplished with the "metal" frames on the newer vehicles. Unfortunately, that metal is too thin to be much good. Again, I wonder if they can be doubled-up? The CF ones offered for the 104001 almost immediately went from 2MM thick to 5MM. I have never seen the superior strength alleged in CF. In 90% of all instances, it's the bling factor that causes the purchase, not actual strength. WOW! Look at the carbon fiber hood on that car! Yawn.
It would be great if somebody offered a dog bone/ CVD assembly that was much larger in diameter. I think that is why Quadify recommends the LC Racing knuckles on the newer buggies. The bearing is a little bigger. I'm not sure if the axle portion to go with it is also bigger. The axle can be bigger in diameter without the end spindle needing to also be bigger. If that were true, however, would the necked down spindle be the new weak point? As with all shafts, the transition from one diameter to another needs to have a radius/ fillet and not a sharp corner = a stress point.
Thursday Thunder offers its share of challenges. What happened to Tony is what happened to my 124018. I was damned lucky to find the half that fell out. As far as fasteners are concerned, I have a work mat and am confined to a work bench with throw rugs nearby and I still lose screws when my fat fingers fumble them (I think I need a 1/5 scale something to work on). Doing repairs in the field has to be more than challenging. I think a van or SUV with the hatch opened is about all that might work. The magic drive shaft from Ali is about the only thing to go into one of these. I need to make a late season order to Ali and throw in one of those small vises we all want and need. I should get the order by the start of the next season.
My grandsons LOVE construction equipment. From day #1, please send along YouTube videos of said land moving monsters in motion. Your son can video you operating the backhoe and dozer with expert finesse.
For those who need one of each of something, we have the attached Axial offerings in 1/24th, 1/10th and 1/5th! When adding Ken to the driver's seat, is it sufficient to just have him wave to everybody or does he also have to have an additional channel to offer the occasional middle finger salute? Decision making in this hobby can be a royal PITA. OBTW, I've read the 1/5 scale Jeep is only $1100 - without Ken. Go big or stay home.
Oct 15, 2021, 04:46 PM
NZ420RC
chemist1111's Avatar
Quote:
Sounds like a very good time. It sounds as if everybody comes with a semi trailer full of parts. I can imagine the mayhem if they were all different vehicles instead of the heritage green monsters they are.
I am the one who has the trailer load of parts

Quote:
The stiffness needed to keep things from going south, as in last night's race, is accomplished with the "metal" frames on the newer vehicles. Unfortunately, that metal is too thin to be much good. Again, I wonder if they can be doubled-up? The CF ones offered for the 104001 almost immediately went from 2MM thick to 5MM. I have never seen the superior strength alleged in CF. In 90% of all instances, it's the bling factor that causes the purchase, not actual strength. WOW! Look at the carbon fiber hood on that car! Yawn.
Could a proper gentleman fabricate one from more felicitous materials? Or do they have mouldings and so forth like the 12428 chassis?

Quote:
It would be great if somebody offered a dog bone/ CVD assembly that was much larger in diameter. I think that is why Quadify recommends the LC Racing knuckles on the newer buggies. The bearing is a little bigger. I'm not sure if the axle portion to go with it is also bigger. The axle can be bigger in diameter without the end spindle needing to also be bigger. If that were true, however, would the necked down spindle be the new weak point? As with all shafts, the transition from one diameter to another needs to have a radius/ fillet and not a sharp corner = a stress point.
You are the man to research these matters! If there's a way, you'll find it

Quote:
Thursday Thunder offers its share of challenges. What happened to Tony is what happened to my 124018. I was damned lucky to find the half that fell out. As far as fasteners are concerned, I have a work mat and am confined to a work bench with throw rugs nearby and I still lose screws when my fat fingers fumble them (I think I need a 1/5 scale something to work on). Doing repairs in the field has to be more than challenging. I think a van or SUV with the hatch opened is about all that might work. The magic drive shaft from Ali is about the only thing to go into one of these. I need to make a late season order to Ali and throw in one of those small vises we all want and need. I should get the order by the start of the next season.
We'll find that drive shaft half with good light and/or the metal detector. Rumour has it that it was holding together by a thread anyway. Incidentally, they get quite warm when they are loose and worked hard.

Quote:
My grandsons LOVE construction equipment. From day #1, please send along YouTube videos of said land moving monsters in motion. Your son can video you operating the backhoe and dozer with expert finesse.
We had the site cleared and flattened with a 15 ton digger last Christmas! Bummer. Ther's a pic attached but that's not what you're after I'd rate myself with a 1/10 digger but that's where it ends.

Quote:
For those who need one of each of something, we have the attached Axial offerings in 1/24th, 1/10th and 1/5th! When adding Ken to the driver's seat, is it sufficient to just have him wave to everybody or does he also have to have an additional channel to offer the occasional middle finger salute? Decision making in this hobby can be a royal PITA. OBTW, I've read the 1/5 scale Jeep is only $1100 - without Ken. Go big or stay home.
He definitely needs to be able to flip the bird

Incidentally, the dodgy smell from the motor was from a severely worn commutator. I threw the rotor into the end of life parts bin. However, I reported that the RZ motor seemed to be unable to cope with the 48/16 = 3.0 gear ratio when I had the belt drive installed. Maybe this was not so, as it was the first run with new brushes in this particular motor. When I took it apart after Thursday night, there was a LOT of worn brush powder fouling the bell end (sic. ) for only two runs...I may conduct further experiments in future to investigate...

The 11T pulleys arrived yesterday, however they are tiny and have no grub screw, so would have to be drilled out like the larger pulleys were. I deem it impractical, and so the 3.0 gear ratio is likely the lowest practical installation with these pulleys. Most people bothering to install belt drive will be running brushless conversions I would think, which can definitely handle the lower ratios.
Last edited by chemist1111; Oct 15, 2021 at 07:56 PM.
Oct 15, 2021, 08:54 PM
NZ420RC
chemist1111's Avatar
Well, well: check this:

wltoys 12428 rc truck - reassamble front diff box to replace drive shaft @ cingkariak 4x4 (13 min 12 sec)


Here's a link to an AE listing:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005...2a302e04kBEJ1t

...seen these before?
Oct 15, 2021, 10:19 PM
mdv
mdv
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by chemist1111
Well, well: check this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKBCR2luTXA

Here's a link to an AE listing:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005...2a302e04kBEJ1t

...seen these before?
Great video. Clearly CG involved since he worked with all that grease and his hands stayed clean.

I have been afraid to take apart a differential because I was afraid I would never get it back together again. Now I can refer to this video. Was this really a 12428? The front end looks completely different.
Oct 16, 2021, 05:52 AM
Registered User
kodak_jack's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by chemist1111

Could a proper gentleman fabricate one from more felicitous materials? Or do they have mouldings and so forth like the 12428 chassis?
This would require a speed lathe in the workshop and none has been spied in attendance. In looking for better "bits" for the 12402A, a fellow poster and I discovered how incredibly frustrating it is to search for parts from something else that might fit on your particular vehicle = crazy! I found adjustable length CVD's, but have no idea how good they are. OBTW, another guy and I have been swapping posts on that 12402A and he came up with a recent YouTube (You Tube is your friend. EVERYTHING is on it!) that showed another guy using the diffs from a 104001 and it has all metal gears. That seems to be the norm now and is a good sign that WLToys is watching and listening. They still seem to be on the stingy side with something as cheap and easy as adding grease.


You are the man to research these matters! If there's a way, you'll find it
I think if we were just talking dog bones, it wouldn't be an issue. Add CVD's to the mix and it changes things considerably.


We'll find that drive shaft half with good light and/or the metal detector. Rumour has it that it was holding together by a thread anyway. Incidentally, they get quite warm when they are loose and worked hard.
Nothing but the magic Ali driveshaft is to be tolerated. Make it so!


We had the site cleared and flattened with a 15 ton digger last Christmas! Bummer. Ther's a pic attached but that's not what you're after I'd rate myself with a 1/10 digger but that's where it ends.
If only things around this part of the world looked that nice and warm around Christmas time.


He definitely needs to be able to flip the bird
A requirement for sure!
Incidentally, the dodgy smell from the motor was from a severely worn commutator. I threw the rotor into the end of life parts bin. However, I reported that the RZ motor seemed to be unable to cope with the 48/16 = 3.0 gear ratio when I had the belt drive installed. Maybe this was not so, as it was the first run with new brushes in this particular motor. When I took it apart after Thursday night, there was a LOT of worn brush powder fouling the bell end (sic. ) for only two runs...I may conduct further experiments in future to investigate...
You and your buggy have had this dodgy smell problem right along. It was thought it was from consuming liquid refreshments, not anything to do with the $$$$$$$$$$$ motor you insist on using. That much brush dust, after a rebuild, is very disheartening.
The 11T pulleys arrived yesterday, however they are tiny and have no grub screw, so would have to be drilled out like the larger pulleys were. I deem it impractical, and so the 3.0 gear ratio is likely the lowest practical installation with these pulleys. Most people bothering to install belt drive will be running brushless conversions I would think, which can definitely handle the lower ratios.
How in the world do you use a pulley without a grub/ set screw? What keeps it in place, magic? How does it drive? How is it "attached" to the shaft?
Oct 16, 2021, 06:15 AM
Registered User
kodak_jack's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by chemist1111 View Post
Well, well: check this:

Here's a link to an AE listing:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005...2a302e04kBEJ1t

...seen these before?
This seems to be the same guy I linked to before. He has the B body and has painted it to his liking. He also has a 1/18 scale shock mount that he fabbed and added "wings" to in order to get the proper locations for the "normal" shock lengths. A word of caution on the screws that mount that shock mount to the gearbox. The screws are very short and you are using a good amount of the length to accommodate the thickness of the mount itself. That leaves very little of the self-tapping screw to do its job. The newer front axles have a resemblance to the not too great driveshafts some have bought, tried and tossed. Only an experimental installation would determine their worth. He disappoints by not using thread lock in critical locations. His use of grease is to be highly commended. It's cheaper if you buy it by the barrel! Thank you for including that link. As I have mentioned, it's a PITA to see a useful video without audio and no links or decent description of what is being used. For many, that shock mount is a very nice idea and easily done. Did you notice the removal sequence for the pesky 2 MM screw? It's not exactly an ideal location for removing that little bugger.
Last edited by kodak_jack; Oct 16, 2021 at 06:48 AM.
Oct 16, 2021, 06:41 AM
Registered User
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Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdv View Post
Great video. Clearly CG involved since he worked with all that grease and his hands stayed clean.

I have been afraid to take apart a differential because I was afraid I would never get it back together again. Now I can refer to this video. Was this really a 12428? The front end looks completely different.
One of the things that I find frustrating is working on a workbench with a work mat between the top and the vehicle is having pesky screws take off for parts unknown. This guy starts out on the floor, eliminating the drop and roll part of it!
It's the B body style that I have on my 10428-B. I am seriously considering switching my original body to it because I like it a lot more. Unfortunately, it also requires buying a different cage. So, it becomes body panels, front and rear "bumpers" and the whole new cage = $45. I originally paid $60 for the whole buggy! How bad do I need that change? If lights mean anything to you, the B body has lights in those front and rear bumpers. The body comes black with blue and white accents. The guy in the video repainted his. Attached is my bigger brother 10428 with that stock color scheme. This is the buggy I'd like to do my long range FPVing with. AS mentioned in the description, it has many 3-D printed mod parts that greatly improve the entire vehicle. When I asked the guy who designed them to do the same on the 12428, he wasn't interested.
The worst part is if the pesky small screw going through the gear into the cup doesn't want to cooperate. On one side, that gear and cup are right there in your hand. On the other side, that screw is buried in the diff housing and even he had some issues with it. That exact same scenario plays out in the rear end. There is a stub shaft that is the input into the rear assembly from the driveshaft. After the diff is removed, if you need to remove the gear, heat helps to loosen the thread lock they may have over-used, but adding heat down inside a piece of plastic can be a PITA! On the front gearbox, you have the same situation where the main driveshaft comes in. If you round out the screw head because it won't move, you are SOL! Get out your Dremel, which also needs to work down inside where there is very little room. You need a soldering iron with a long skinny tip. Apply heat and see if it loosens the thread lock. Wash, rinse, repeat. If your buggy came with metal gears and the teeth are holding up, you shouldn't have to deal with what I've described. Just take the diff apart, without removing internal gears, and make sure it has grease.
Last edited by kodak_jack; Oct 16, 2021 at 06:49 AM.
Oct 16, 2021, 03:07 PM
NZ420RC
chemist1111's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdv
Great video. Clearly CG involved since he worked with all that grease and his hands stayed clean.

I have been afraid to take apart a differential because I was afraid I would never get it back together again. Now I can refer to this video. Was this really a 12428? The front end looks completely different.
It has been extensively modified for sure. Many of us modify the front end so that the shocks are upright and directly linked from front suspension arms to mounts.

Once you have pulled apart a diff once you will be sweet. The front and rear are very similar. Just have tools, vice, Loctite and your exploded diagram on hand. We can help if dramas arise For extra security, order a spare diff guts or two so that you can install a new one while you play. I still rate this one for the price. Its gears are not FH but it should last you the same length of time as the stock one. You can order FH gear sets later and upgrade to them if you keep the rest of the car going long enough

Copy and Paste Wltoys 12429 Front Differential RC Car Parts into Banggood: couldn't get my link to work
Last edited by chemist1111; Oct 16, 2021 at 03:27 PM.
Oct 16, 2021, 03:12 PM
NZ420RC
chemist1111's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kodak_jack
How in the world do you use a pulley without a grub/ set screw? What keeps it in place, magic? How does it drive? How is it "attached" to the shaft?
Well I'd just drill and tap a grub screw hole into it: same as for the 48T pulley. These ones are much smaller though, which is why I deem it impractical. If someone wanted the original torque/speed, then a higher turn motor would be the most practical solution with the 16/48 pulleys. Again: I suspect the RZ motor may be able to handle the 3.0 gear ratio, but I'd be inclined to return to the original diameter wheels to make it happen. I might investigate this at a later date for a laugh.
Oct 16, 2021, 03:19 PM
NZ420RC
chemist1111's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kodak_jack
This seems to be the same guy I linked to before. He has the B body and has painted it to his liking. He also has a 1/18 scale shock mount that he fabbed and added "wings" to in order to get the proper locations for the "normal" shock lengths. A word of caution on the screws that mount that shock mount to the gearbox. The screws are very short and you are using a good amount of the length to accommodate the thickness of the mount itself. That leaves very little of the self-tapping screw to do its job. The newer front axles have a resemblance to the not too great driveshafts some have bought, tried and tossed. Only an experimental installation would determine their worth. He disappoints by not using thread lock in critical locations. His use of grease is to be highly commended. It's cheaper if you buy it by the barrel! Thank you for including that link. As I have mentioned, it's a PITA to see a useful video without audio and no links or decent description of what is being used. For many, that shock mount is a very nice idea and easily done. Did you notice the removal sequence for the pesky 2 MM screw? It's not exactly an ideal location for removing that little bugger.
I have speculated on installing a pair of rear diff input shafts 0085 to the front diff before in order to use alternative fixings for alternative front drive shafts. Good to see that these are available as sets, however we need to see versions of the driveshafts from reputable outfits. As you point out, these may not be any more durable. We have issues with the universal joint section, and these have two of them. I'd be very interested in installing front drive shafts from good hobby grade cars if ever possible... I suspect that what we use is as good as it gets while they are available.
Oct 17, 2021, 06:54 AM
Registered User
kodak_jack's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by chemist1111
It has been extensively modified for sure. Many of us modify the front end so that the shocks are upright and directly linked from front suspension arms to mounts.

Once you have pulled apart a diff once you will be sweet. The front and rear are very similar. Just have tools, vice, Loctite and your exploded diagram on hand. We can help if dramas arise For extra security, order a spare diff guts or two so that you can install a new one while you play. I still rate this one for the price. Its gears are not FH but it should last you the same length of time as the stock one. You can order FH gear sets later and upgrade to them if you keep the rest of the car going long enough

Copy and Paste Wltoys 12429 Front Differential RC Car Parts into Banggood: couldn't get my link to work
Even if the link did work, Banggood does not have much left and certainly won't/ can't reorder. One theory put forth a while ago is that some parts suppliers with uncommon names have equipment or even injection molding machines and molds to produce short order runs of odd ball parts you can no longer find. Monkey Hobby had 12423 parts that others did not. Did he have a stash of them or did he make some when asked? The order took a while as it was coming from who knows where, but I got them and the cost was minimal. Likewise, do all of the vendors selling on Ali actually have that many parts in all of those colors or do they somehow get them made as needed? I mentioned that the 104001 diffs will work in the 12402 and by default the 10428 and Twin Hammers. That's a good thing as the parts labeled as being for those other vehicles are, for the most part, gone now. If they reuse parts on a different vehicle, you have to use telepathy to know that when you have them listed as available for one vehicle and not for 4 others.
Now, in like manor, those hard gears you have linked to in the past come from one vendor. If that vendor no longer makes them available, then what? I have no idea how you found him to begin with. Almost all listings just say they have metal gears. Speaking of gears, the molded gearbox shell ultimately determines what goes on inside of it. Molded parts have tolerances that can be all over the place. That is why some of the upper crust vehicles have metal gearboxes made by companies like Hot Racing, etc. For the popularity this buggy had, it was ignored except for bling parts. Too bad.
Oct 17, 2021, 07:10 AM
Registered User
kodak_jack's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by chemist1111
I have speculated on installing a pair of rear diff input shafts 0085 to the front diff before in order to use alternative fixings for alternative front drive shafts. Good to see that these are available as sets, however we need to see versions of the driveshafts from reputable outfits. As you point out, these may not be any more durable. We have issues with the universal joint section, and these have two of them. I'd be very interested in installing front drive shafts from good hobby grade cars if ever possible... I suspect that what we use is as good as it gets while they are available.
FWIW, the savior of the 1/14 scale world, LC Racing, does make or did make a 1/12 scale buggy too. I never pursued it as they were expensive to buy and didn't seem to have a very long production run. Their buggy may have been ignored when the 12428 and FY-03 were available at 1/2 the price. When it came to the 1/14 scale vehicles, it took someone who owned one of each to see the correlation/ copying that was done. I have always liked the 1/14 truggy, but they did the same thing that Losi did in making the truggy a little longer and requiring a whole different set of parts. In any event, even though the LC Racing vehicles are thought to be superior, they are no different than anybody else in that plastic has to be swapped for aluminum for durability and reliability. Again, it takes a lot of experimenting and $$$ to come up with the "right" combinations to use. It's almost as bad as the motor/ ESC/ gearing fiasco. In many cases, there are too many choices.
Oct 17, 2021, 01:15 PM
NZ420RC
chemist1111's Avatar
Quote:
Even if the link did work, Banggood does not have much left and certainly won't/ can't reorder. One theory put forth a while ago is that some parts suppliers with uncommon names have equipment or even injection molding machines and molds to produce short order runs of odd ball parts you can no longer find. Monkey Hobby had 12423 parts that others did not. Did he have a stash of them or did he make some when asked? The order took a while as it was coming from who knows where, but I got them and the cost was minimal. Likewise, do all of the vendors selling on Ali actually have that many parts in all of those colors or do they somehow get them made as needed? I mentioned that the 104001 diffs will work in the 12402 and by default the 10428 and Twin Hammers. That's a good thing as the parts labeled as being for those other vehicles are, for the most part, gone now. If they reuse parts on a different vehicle, you have to use telepathy to know that when you have them listed as available for one vehicle and not for 4 others.
One can only speculate. The front diffs are the same: but the rear diffs are the larger 1/10 scale. the rear diff guts differs only by the size of the axles.

Quote:
Now, in like manor, those hard gears you have linked to in the past come from one vendor. If that vendor no longer makes them available, then what? I have no idea how you found him to begin with. Almost all listings just say they have metal gears. Speaking of gears, the molded gearbox shell ultimately determines what goes on inside of it. Molded parts have tolerances that can be all over the place. That is why some of the upper crust vehicles have metal gearboxes made by companies like Hot Racing, etc. For the popularity this buggy had, it was ignored except for bling parts. Too bad.
I reckon the vendors in some of those links have changed the pics in their listings. I read a short thread in which you passed on some FH gear link that definitely used to be known FH gears, however the picture of the gears on that link is now of a gear type that I have not purchased before. They are the ones where the 4 asteroid and the diff input gears have no flat base to the teeth. Very mysterious!

Here are the older type that I have had experience with, have a flat disc at the base of the teeth, and are confirmed FH:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3287...47019394%22%7D

Listing Title: Wltoys 12428 12429 RC Car Spare Parts Upgrade Metal Gear 30T 24T 12T Differential Large Gear Driving Gear 0011/0012/0013/0014

MEOA Professional RC Toy & Building Blocks Store

...vs the newer type, which have no flat base to the teeth on the input and asteroid gears:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005...4fe94c4dfSBuLq

Listing Title: Upgrade Metal Gear 30T 16T 10T Differential Driving Gears for Wltoys 144001 12428 12429 12423 12429 RC Car Spare Parts

Have Fun Kids Toy Store

Note that I tried to order the newer type from Have Fun Kids Toy Store and was sent the older type (despite the newer type being pictured on the listing shown above), so as yet the newer type have not been confirmed FH. I can't seem to get Ali links to work: they send me to the AE home page, so copy the listing title into the search bar and check the store name. We have also confirmed that the pics can change on listings so, if in doubt, check with us.
Last edited by chemist1111; Nov 21, 2021 at 03:10 PM.


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