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Feb 11, 2018, 11:42 AM
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Discussion

altitude in telemetry: what for?


if you have a radio with telemetry that sends altitude readings...
1-what do you get from that?
2-how you use altitude?

i find it convenient for my kind of flying, but how you who use it?
please answers polite, positive and to the point only.
thanks
Last edited by phil alvirez; Feb 13, 2018 at 07:23 AM.
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Feb 11, 2018, 12:32 PM
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R.M. Gellart's Avatar
The only time I have ever used telemetry is flying XC, both rate of climb and altitude. Also had battery read out on request. At the time, we were flying at heights of 3,000-4,000 AGL and you can use the two primary read outs to not only help with lift, but also dash speeds between thermal so you did not get to Vne. Never used this stuff in contests or playing around, I wanted to make the reads myself there.

Marc
Feb 11, 2018, 02:28 PM
Nothing like a good WOODIE!
cooper998's Avatar
I use altitude reading to prevent from getting too high, my eyesight while good enough for most planes becomes difficult to judge height without altitude telemetry. Its always that fine line between being able to see that spot in the sky and having it disappear but with the telemetry I am able to prevent the dreaded "I lost it"

Tony
Feb 11, 2018, 03:42 PM
Registered User

me too


Quote:
Originally Posted by cooper998
I use altitude reading to prevent from getting too high, my eyesight while good enough for most planes becomes difficult to judge height without altitude telemetry. Its always that fine line between being able to see that spot in the sky and having it disappear but with the telemetry I am able to prevent the dreaded "I lost it"

Tony
i have to comment on this because is the main reason why i do that too.
my plane has been in that situation several times, and if had not been due to this i would have lost it.
when i put it on a dive to bring it down and hear the figures is the only way to know that i am not coming down so fast that i fold the wings!
thanks for your input.
Feb 11, 2018, 05:42 PM
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Gratter's Avatar
I am with Tony. Helps me keep it with in my comfort zone. Mine also gives me a 60foot read out so I know to start setting up for landing. We also have some 90 foot trees at the edge of our field so when I hear 120 feet I make sure I am heading back over the field.
Last edited by Gratter; Feb 11, 2018 at 06:08 PM.
Feb 12, 2018, 09:14 AM
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I use the telemetry for practice to improve my thermaling. This is especially helpful in very soft conditions. I will carefully watch my plane and try to decide if it is really going up or not and use the telemetry to determine if I am reading the airplane correctly or not. It has really improved my ability to recognize soft lift visually.
Jim
Feb 12, 2018, 10:07 AM
Registered User

right on!


thank you for you input.

i do the same, and, as you say, it is a great way to improve your skills for feeling thermals.
Feb 12, 2018, 10:17 AM
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I use my Altis quite often, bur rarely have the telemetry connected. But when I do I always have a switch to enable/disable the sounds, both vario and height readout independently.

To learn to find weak thermals I occasionally enable the vario, but only to detect the thermal; I find it easier to see if the plane rises or sinks when it's in the thermal than to hear it.

The height readout I mainly use to "calibrate" my eye measurement. I use it to learn how long motorruns I need to get to various starting heights for F5J. I also use it to confirm how much margin I have to the treetops. But one number at the time is enough -- it soon gets really annoying...

Edit: I just noted that Jim already mentioned weak thermals. Sorry for the redundancy.
Feb 12, 2018, 11:18 AM
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never too many


thank you sir. never will be too many comments confirming that.
keep bringing them.
all are welcome.
Feb 12, 2018, 10:26 PM
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I use the altitude read out to help determine if I am slowly losing altitude or maintaining or going up slowly. I use a vario to determine how bad the sink is and if I am really good lift. For me both are very helpful in learning to reading the glider. Reading air is an art that I am still learning. Compared to the better fliers I do not read the signs very well.

Neither the altitude or vario will help one know where to go to find lift. That requires reading the signs around the field. The timing of thermals moving across the field is helpful.

I found there is no simple answer that helps one other than finding a mentor and doing allot of flying in different conditions. Allot of flying with one glider to understand what the glider is telling you.

The altitude and vario will aid in learning to read the glider as to what the conditions.

As for which type of plane, any plane that is used to thermal.

Art
Feb 13, 2018, 02:54 AM
Registered User

great


another great input. thank you very much.
as you say, 1 thing is what your plane tells you and how to use it, and another is about where to find thermals.
and for learning what the plane tells, vario and altitude are of great help to me too.
Feb 13, 2018, 02:56 AM
Registered User
A friend of mine has a radio like this. The last time I saw him fly, we were both amazed by just how strong the lift was. I don't remember the value in fpm, but it was quite impressive. I had to keep pestering him to bring it down before it vanished.

I think if I had altitude telemetry, I might use it to set a ceiling, so that I'd start bringing the model down rather than holding on for just another minute, until suddenly I couldn't see the model. I think, with 20/20 vision, you're supposed to be able to resolve 1 minute of arc. For a model with a 10 inch chord (at the root, pretty much), that might be around 2,800 feet. I can see a little bit better than that, so 2,800 feet might be a good ceiling, even though I've seen models higher than that on occasion. Of course, this wouldn't be very useful if the model was also out at an unknown number of degrees below vertical, since the distance would be greater for any given altitude.
Feb 13, 2018, 07:38 AM
Registered User
Yup, great point: LOS (as also in "loss") depends on actual distance .... and dust, etc. in the air. So not only is it rare but actually stupid to fly directly over your head (poor neck plus almost impossible to gauge height change with no reference to plane's flight performance -- what is the plane doing: real lift or "stick-lift"? -- from a visually oblique tilted circle) .... but when normally flying at some transverse ground distance from yourself, more of the actual distance to the plane will be through "dirtier" air!

So under typical normal conditions if a plane were to be directly overhead at 1,000', it would be clearer to the eye (but more difficult to gauge changes in height) than the same 1,000' distance to the plane when flying at a visual angle of 60 from you (30 above the ground line) .... even though it is only 500' high because more of the distance would be through dirtier air.

So it would be harder to see at a normal oblique angle and the actual height above the ground (from telemetered info) would not only be useless but in fact dangerously misleading

That means that there is a lot of experienced judgement involved to properly use the telemetered height info (not variometer, which CAN be useful when needed) and we get back to some of the above posts about gaining experience under mentorship and LOTS of flying
Feb 13, 2018, 08:34 AM
Registered User

polite, positive and to the point


Quote:
Originally Posted by lincoln
A friend of mine has a radio like this. The last time I saw him fly, we were both amazed by just how strong the lift was. I don't remember the value in fpm, but it was quite impressive. I had to keep pestering him to bring it down before it vanished.

I think if I had altitude telemetry, I might use it to set a ceiling, so that I'd start bringing the model down rather than holding on for just another minute, until suddenly I couldn't see the model. I think, with 20/20 vision, you're supposed to be able to resolve 1 minute of arc. For a model with a 10 inch chord (at the root, pretty much), that might be around 2,800 feet. I can see a little bit better than that, so 2,800 feet might be a good ceiling, even though I've seen models higher than that on occasion. Of course, this wouldn't be very useful if the model was also out at an unknown number of degrees below vertical, since the distance would be greater for any given altitude.
thank you for your comments. setting ceiling is another thing to use for safety.

but the most important thing is that altitude and vario are a great help for us.
and thanks to you who have been bringing polite, positive comments and to the point.
Feb 13, 2018, 04:33 PM
InJamNoOneCanHearYouScrea m
I have flown with Lincoln and I can vouch for his Superman eyes...they are the best when you are way away from the field and 500-800 meters up.

I use the altitude for contesting by limiting my height to 800 meters when I am specked out. For cross country where height is not much of an issue I use it in the other direction setting a 500 meter lower limit where I give up pushing on the course in favor of finding a thermal to get back to 800-1000 meters. Having completed my L5 cross country's in electric and winch the concept has proven effective.


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