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Feb 09, 2018, 07:51 AM
EB-66C Team Member
xplaneguy's Avatar
Thread OP
New Product

Freewing 90mm F-4 Phantom


PROJECT BOND

Freewing 90mm F-4D Phantom II

The time has come! Developed in tandem alongside last summer’s Project Virtue (80mm A-4 Skyhawk), Project Bond was our codename for Freewing’s first F-4 Phantom. With the 64mm and 80mm series stocked with recent aircraft from the Vietnam era, we set out to bring it all home with a big 90mm F-4. We know many of us have been waiting for the venerable Rhino to get the proper Motion RC treatment, and we know you’ll enjoy flying the final result!

OVERVIEW
Aviation enthusiasts have long loved the F-4 Phantom, and Freewing and Motion RC are extremely proud to introduce our 90mm Super Scale Series rendition of this ultimate warfighter! For more than 50 years, the F-4 Phantom delivered the versatile capabilities required of an all-weather frontline supersonic interceptor, fighter-bomber, SEAD, and reconnaissance platform. Less than a year after its retirement from US military service, keep the F-4 Phantom flying in your RC fleet!

DESIGN
RC fans have consistently requested a large F-4 in true PNP format that performs excellently out of the box without endless modifications. We developed this F-4 to deliver reliability, durability, and performance from your very first flight, supported by Freewing’s parts availability and Motion RC’s customer service should you ever need it. We can also confidently state that dependable grass operation is a hallmark of the Freewing 90mm F-4. With its wide stance, tall main tires, Oleo suspension nose strut and concealed trailing link suspension main struts, this aircraft performs well on rougher grass fields normally reserved for the Freewing A-10, Avanti, and other reliable “grass approved” EDFs. Failsafes were also designed into the mounting arrangement to minimize structural foam damage in the event of excessively rough landings beyond normal limits.

DETAILS
The Freewing 90mm F-4’s Super Scale details include accurate dual landing lights flush-mounted into the scale operating nose wheel doors, DayBright position lights, rivet detail, eight factory-painted colors, static arrestor hook, and period accurate ordnance comprising four AIM-9D Sidewinders and two 600 gallon fuel tanks. Copious detail is molded into the aircraft’s surfaces without distracting from the overall scale effect, including recessed areas depicting Position 4 and 6 (where DIY modelers could add belly-mounted AIM-7D/E Sparrows). Plastic details include pitot tubes, ejection seat pull rings, and molded exhaust nozzles. The large fiberglass nose cone is magnetic and removable, and the chin pod beneath it is foam, allowing easy removable and customization for other versions (-C or late -D or other). An optional, highly detailed 3DPUP set (“3D Printed Upgrade Part”) is available that represents the correct Mk H-7 ejection seats and cockpit instrument panels in high detail.

LIVERY
Representing the famed aircraft BuNos 66-463 operated by pilot Richard “Steve” Ritchie and weapons systems officer Charles “Chuck” DeBellevue when they scored their fifth kill together on May 10, 1972 over Vietnam, the Freewing 90mm F-4 arrives pre-painted in classic SEA (South East Asia) Camo and proudly wears the markings of the 555th TFS. BuNos 66-463 became a bona fide “MiG Killer”, being credited for six aerial kills with five different flight crews. The primary colors of the Freewing F-4 were based on color samples from a real F-4, obtained in person with our museum partner and then scaled appropriately for the model. For piloting wanting to customize their F-4 with their own scheme, we recommend Callie-Graphics.com for all your custom adhesive vinyl decal needs, and we worked with her to ensure her decal sets match our Freewing 90mm F-4’s proportions.
EASE OF USE
Such a large RC model aircraft remains easy to transport with its magnetic removable fiberglass nose cone and removable wings with a convenient flexible wire harness that attaches at each wing root. Large flaps, brass ball links, reliable control hardware, and digital servos throughout the aircraft provide dependable control, and a specially designed elevator mechanism incorporates two ball bearings for smooth rotation at all times. The primary assembly of the entire aircraft requires only one epoxy joint.
POWER SYSTEM
The Freewing 90mm F-4 Phantom II is available in two power system versions. The Standard version requires a 6s 5000-6000mAh battery, and is our top recommendation to pilots seeking the best balance between speed, thrust, and cost. The High Performance version requires an 8s 5000mAh battery, and delivers increased vertical climbing performance and acceleration. The High Performance version is recommended for Advanced pilots only due to the aircraft’s higher speed envelope and heavier flying characteristics.

FLIGHT CHARACTERISTICS
Recognizing that much of the F-4’s brute speed was a function of its powerful engines rather than a slippery aerodynamic profile, we incorporated several key design elements specific to the scaled down odel to achieve the intended flight characteristics. The result is a suprisingly nimble and agile Phantom that penetrates well, lands slowly, and has excellent vertical performance.

After years of waiting, the time has come! Own the biggest and best performing foam EDF F-4 Phantom in the world –Freewing has delivered another grand slam!

MEDIA
Our Official Preview Video here:
Our Official Build Video is coming soon:
Our Official Flight Review Video here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GkXbZX2VbM 
Tune in for a special RC Afterhours Podcast this Sunday.

Are you attending the Arizona Electric Festival this weekend? You chose wisely. Xplaneguy and Pilot Evelyn are there with one of these beauties nestled among their sizeable fleet, and they’ll be flying all weekend. Stop by and let us know what you think! Special thanks to them and AceMiGKiller for fielding questions and collecting IOUs. Sorry, keyboard drool is not acceptable currency.

‘NUFF TALK, MORE PICS

Thanks to Pilot Evelyn, Bajora, Pilot Ryan and Co for providing the eye candy.
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Feb 09, 2018, 07:52 AM
EB-66C Team Member
xplaneguy's Avatar
Thread OP
Freewing 90mm F-4 Phantom II - Second Flight (4 min 42 sec)
Last edited by xplaneguy; Jun 28, 2018 at 08:39 PM.
Feb 09, 2018, 07:56 AM
Foam abuser!
crxmanpat's Avatar
Woo hoo! Can't wait to see her in person today!

Pat
Feb 09, 2018, 08:00 AM
Registered User
slowace's Avatar
Plz don't make me wait!
Feb 09, 2018, 08:01 AM
Where Customers Matter
Freewing F-4 Phantom II 90mm Super Scale EDF Jet - Motion RC Announcement. (2 min 40 sec)


So excited to bring this to you guys! Enjoy it!
Feb 09, 2018, 08:04 AM
Hugo Flynow's Avatar
Wow! That plane is absolutely beautiful! That is a Freewing Grand Slam!

I don't think my field is big enough for it....(runs away crying)
Feb 09, 2018, 08:06 AM
Shameless Warbirdaholic.
Aros.MotionRC's Avatar
Merry Christmas all over again folks!
Feb 09, 2018, 08:08 AM
Foam abuser!
crxmanpat's Avatar
Pre-ordered the ARF+ as I don't want to wait for the high power 8S version to come in stock. I will be sticking a JF90 with a HET 700-68-1680 motor in it.

Pat
Feb 09, 2018, 08:10 AM
Need 4 Speed!
pdawg's Avatar
Specs?
Latest blog entry: original Y/A F-18 Kit
Feb 09, 2018, 08:11 AM
Hugo Flynow's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdawg
specs?
big!
Feb 09, 2018, 08:13 AM
Foam abuser!
crxmanpat's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdawg
Specs?
Specs are up on the product page:

https://www.motionrc.com/collections...phantom-ii-pnp

Pat
Feb 09, 2018, 08:16 AM
Registered User
union1's Avatar
At last!... A good sized F4, and a D model too
Latest blog entry: SR-71 for 2 x 70mm EDF
Feb 09, 2018, 08:16 AM
Registered User
Definitely a nice looking model. SOOOOO glad for those that have been begging for it to finally get it.

Love the scheme too!
Feb 09, 2018, 08:16 AM
Need 4 Speed!
pdawg's Avatar
Thx for the link
Latest blog entry: original Y/A F-18 Kit
Feb 09, 2018, 08:22 AM
AA6JB
Bajora's Avatar
You folks are going to LOVE this one! Flies SO amazingly well! The F-4 that the EDF world has been waiting for!











Latest blog entry: Updated FMS 1400mm J3 Cub
Feb 09, 2018, 08:26 AM
Foam abuser!
crxmanpat's Avatar
They picked a good decal scheme for it, but I think I'll have Callie do a set for Col. Robin Olds' bird, even though it's a C and not a D.



Pat
Feb 09, 2018, 08:26 AM
Registered User
slowace's Avatar
ouch! posted at 499.

was hoping same as a4
Feb 09, 2018, 08:26 AM
EB-66C Team Member
xplaneguy's Avatar
Thread OP
Great pics Jon!

Here's our second flight video:
Freewing 90mm F-4 Phantom II - Second Flight (4 min 42 sec)
Feb 09, 2018, 08:28 AM
Shameless Warbirdaholic.
Aros.MotionRC's Avatar
I have been wanting this jet like most for YEARS!! I'll have to wait for mine this Summer when all the pre-orders are taken care of first...Enjoy!
Feb 09, 2018, 08:28 AM
EB-66C Team Member
xplaneguy's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by crxmanpat
They picked a good decal scheme for it, but I think I'll have Callie do a set for Col. Robin Olds' bird, even though it's a C and not a D.



Pat
You're in luck! The 3D parts set includes the -C chin pod. I'll have the 3D parts displayed at AEF.
Feb 09, 2018, 08:28 AM
Foam abuser!
crxmanpat's Avatar
Awesome!

Pat
Feb 09, 2018, 08:33 AM
Registered User
slowace's Avatar
What would the time limit be on this?

My only edf is the rebel and I get 3min on that.
Feb 09, 2018, 08:35 AM
Registered User
Dave Grife's Avatar

Cool


Pre-order complete !

-DG
Feb 09, 2018, 08:37 AM
Kicking Tires
Thanks for putting up the thread, Xplaneguy, and thanks, Bajora, for your photos and for that magazine review to come. I can't wait for the other videos to go live showing your verticals and tight Cuban-8s!

Slowace, the 80mm A-4's pricepoint is in line with its other 80mm brethren. The 90mm F-4's price point is in line with its 90mm brethren (and this time the ordnance is included). We considered an 80mm F-4, but ultimately decided it would be better received as part of the 90mm Super Scale Series.

Thanks for the feedback, everyone. Keep it coming. I'm going back to work on the others.

...
Feb 09, 2018, 08:38 AM
AA6JB
Bajora's Avatar
And MORE photos of this killer model!













Latest blog entry: Updated FMS 1400mm J3 Cub
Feb 09, 2018, 08:39 AM
Registered User
Tumbler's Avatar
Looking for max flight time rather than top speed. What is the amp draw on 6s and 8s. Would like to use 6200s. Can it handle 8s 6200s.
Thanks!
Brian
Feb 09, 2018, 08:39 AM
Mansell Models
N827TM's Avatar
Pre-ordered!!

Tom
Feb 09, 2018, 08:59 AM
Registered User
afjetmech's Avatar
Can you (Motion) give some wing design details like you did with the A-10? Specifically what kind of reinforcements there are in the gear area to prevent them from coming through the top of the wing.
Feb 09, 2018, 09:01 AM
Kicking Tires
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tumbler
Looking for max flight time rather than top speed. What is the amp draw on 6s and 8s. Would like to use 6200s. Can it handle 8s 6200s.
Thanks!
Brian
Hey Brian, glad to see you here! Xplaneguy can post dimensions of the battery bay and other specs after the AEF event he's flying today and tomorrow. I'm not near my F-4s or the CAD at the moment. As far as size goes, we flew 8s 5000s in testing without mods to the battery bay, 5800s were tight but the canopy would close with a shave. We didn't test 6200s, though. If they're long, there's space. If they're tall and not wide, you have the option of removing the ply floor. If they're tall and wide, they probably wouldn't fit. Not to mention the weight gain.

My flights ranged from 2.5-4.0 minutes on the stock 6s PNP and stock 6s 5000 battery, as usual like most other 90mm 6s foamy EDFs, just depending on throttle usage, weather conditions, and other standard factors. Faster flights in less wind resulted in shorter flights. I fly with onboard voltage telemetry, so I always land at the same voltage, although the actual flight time varies widely (such is the nature of the types of flight evaluations we subject the prototypes to). I can look up the datalogger info when the factory re-opens after Chinese New Year if you're after more specific information about consumption, etc.

The 6s PNP runs a 1750kv outrunner on a 9B fan. The 8s is a 12B fan, inrunner 1250kv. Download the .PDF manual on the product page for more information:

https://www.motionrc.com/products/fr...phantom-ii-pnp

Cheers
Feb 09, 2018, 09:10 AM
Upstanding Member
Kurt's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by xplaneguy
Oleo suspension nose strut
Does it really have an oil-filled shock in the nose strut??
Feb 09, 2018, 09:14 AM
Registered User
Wow! And I thought I was done with foamies, now this!! I can't pass on this gorgeous aircraft, well done Motion!

Paul.
Feb 09, 2018, 09:18 AM
Registered User
500$.. for what? a 6 channel edf? Not even a twin... and this is the pre order price?

I think they are banking on people wanting a f-4 and them having the only offering, not providing a good value.

Like really, think about it. the t-45 had custom designed slats, airbrakes, the same power system, more complicated lg, and is 50$ cheaper. So what if it includes ordinance? Ordinance is just some foam, probably costs them 5 cents to inject.. and they probably use the same missile molds they already had... most people will probably not even use them because they make it fly worse.
Feb 09, 2018, 09:18 AM
Registered RC NUT!
The Snake's Avatar
Looks beautiful, my 8s system will be prefect for it too!
Feb 09, 2018, 09:21 AM
Kicking Tires
Quote:
Originally Posted by afjetmech
Can you (Motion) give some wing design details like you did with the A-10? Specifically what kind of reinforcements there are in the gear area to prevent them from coming through the top of the wing.
afjetmech, the wings attach to the fuse with two carbon spars, fore and aft. Similar to how we jointed the A-10's central spars with its internal wing spars, the F-4's aft central spar ties via a bonded joiner into a carbon rectanglular rod (oriented vertically), that tapers out to the wingtip, about an inch shy of the tip itself. Essentially it creates a nearly "tip to tip" spar, even taking into account the changing wing angles. The hinge points are also aligned with carbon cylindrical rod.

Flight testing confirmed that the F-4's much narrower wingspan and significantly wider root chord didn't need the complex latticed carbon/ply/aluminum that the A-10's wings needed in order to withstand the forces of RC flying. Accordingly, we omitted that heavier, unnecessary structure. As I'm fond of saying, each model is different and its requirements will always vary.

Bajora's test pilot can attest that their F-4 was flown very hard, without issues. They flew it beyond what I would consider reasonable for customers to fly an RC model like this and expect it to survive (F-4s shouldn't be put into a tail sit and flopped over into a spin on purpose --although it does make for fun video). I'm appreciative that they were able to independently verify the tests we conduct here at the factory. As a matter of principle, we evaluate prototypes to failure. Force gauges, the whole nine yards. Barring a fubar glue incident, wings flying off our models should be the least of our worries.
Feb 09, 2018, 09:29 AM
SJ
SJ
Registered User
SJ's Avatar
Another fantastic model from freewing. Great job guys.
Feb 09, 2018, 09:43 AM
Registered User
afjetmech's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha.MotionRC
afjetmech, the wings attach to the fuse with two carbon spars, fore and aft. Similar to how we jointed the A-10's central spars with its internal wing spars, the F-4's aft central spar ties via a bonded joiner into a carbon rectanglular rod (oriented vertically), that tapers out to the wingtip, about an inch shy of the tip itself. Essentially it creates a nearly "tip to tip" spar, even taking into account the changing wing angles. The hinge points are also aligned with carbon cylindrical rod.

Flight testing confirmed that the F-4's much narrower wingspan and significantly wider root chord didn't need the complex latticed carbon/ply/aluminum that the A-10's wings needed in order to withstand the forces of RC flying. Accordingly, we omitted that heavier, unnecessary structure. As I'm fond of saying, each model is different and its requirements will always vary.

Bajora's test pilot can attest that their F-4 was flown very hard, without issues. They flew it beyond what I would consider reasonable for customers to fly an RC model like this and expect it to survive (F-4s shouldn't be put into a tail sit and flopped over into a spin on purpose --although it does make for fun video). I'm appreciative that they were able to independently verify the tests we conduct here at the factory. As a matter of principle, we evaluate prototypes to failure. Force gauges, the whole nine yards. Barring a fubar glue incident, wings flying off our models should be the least of our worries.
Thank you for that info. I mainly was concerned about main gear pushing through the top of the wing like some people had happening on the T-45. I'm sure you guys did plenty of bounce testing and I'll take your word that this is as tough as the A-10.
Feb 09, 2018, 09:43 AM
Registered RC NUT!
The Snake's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by bandetlol
500$.. for what? a 6 channel edf? Not even a twin... and this is the pre order price?

I think they are banking on people wanting a f-4 and them having the only offering, not providing a good value.

Like really, think about it. the t-45 had custom designed slats, airbrakes, the same power system, more complicated lg, and is 50$ cheaper. So what if it includes ordinance? Ordinance is just some foam, probably costs them 5 cents to inject.. and they probably use the same missile molds they already had... most people will probably not even use them because they make it fly worse.

All the 90 mm Super scale where release at the same price some have dropped in price to push up old inventory. People are crying for super scale and now it's here!
Feb 09, 2018, 09:49 AM
Where Customers Matter
Hey Guys, just want to reiterate this if you missed it on the product page. The first batch of the F-4's that left the warehouse are extremely limited. They are selling very fast. Once they sell out then the ETA will change on the pre-order and you will be on the second batch which will be produced when the factory re-opens after Chinese New Year which effectively started today. So if you want an F-4 in the first batch, then do not hesitate.
Feb 09, 2018, 09:50 AM
Multi-Platform Pilot
barracudahockey's Avatar
oh my!
Feb 09, 2018, 09:51 AM
Registered User
Here's the first build video:

FREEWING F4 BUILD VIDEO (15 min 38 sec)
Feb 09, 2018, 09:52 AM
Redneck Injuneer
bill34207's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Snake
Looks beautiful, my 8s system will be prefect for it too!
The ARF Plus is only $389.00, too. Mine is ordered.
Latest blog entry: Current Health Conditions
Feb 09, 2018, 09:54 AM
Registered User
Order placed for an ARF! Speed up that boat!
Feb 09, 2018, 10:07 AM
Registered User
Lets also start talking about what 90mm EDF power systems people are planning!
Feb 09, 2018, 10:10 AM
Avionics tech
52Sabre's Avatar
Where's the ECM pod? I worked these over in the UK 1973-76. Should have an AN/ALQ-87 installed.
Feb 09, 2018, 10:20 AM
Registered User
slowace's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3Man03
Here's the first build video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_LsK7VG_yc
well judging by the size of that , guess im in.
Feb 09, 2018, 10:25 AM
Registered User
Tumbler's Avatar
No arf plus in this batch?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MotionRC
Hey Guys, just want to reiterate this if you missed it on the product page. The first batch of the F-4's that left the warehouse are extremely limited. They are selling very fast. Once they sell out then the ETA will change on the pre-order and you will be on the second batch which will be produced when the factory re-opens after Chinese New Year which effectively started today. So if you want an F-4 in the first batch, then do not hesitate.
Feb 09, 2018, 10:27 AM
killickb
killickb's Avatar
ARF + sold out already @ 10:26 am here in Florida.
Feb 09, 2018, 10:30 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by killickb
ARF + sold out already @ 10:26 am here in Florida.
It has been "pre-order" only. There wasn't any in-stock.
Feb 09, 2018, 10:31 AM
Retired US Navy
Evan D's Avatar
Are you sure or making the assumption because you can't click preorder?

It wasn't there at 8:30 either.
Edit, it was the 8S that wasn't preorderable...

Quote:
Originally Posted by killickb
ARF + sold out already @ 10:26 am here in Florida.
Feb 09, 2018, 10:31 AM
Over the top, comin' down hard
1750kv 9-blade fan should make the 8s upgrade less of a mandatory move (for me, anyway).
Is the shroud/stator still metal?

Also, though I would have liked to see it come with an AB leds, it looks to be really easy to add one... cool!
Feb 09, 2018, 10:32 AM
Registered User
Tumbler's Avatar
How do you know. Looks like still available for preorder on their site and says available mid April


Quote:
Originally Posted by killickb
ARF + sold out already @ 10:26 am here in Florida.
Feb 09, 2018, 10:32 AM
Retired US Navy
Evan D's Avatar
Yes the molded a flat for the AB's on the tail cones...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barron06
1750kv 9-blade fan should make the 8s upgrade less of a mandatory move (for me, anyway).
Is the shroud/stator still metal?

Also, though I would have liked to see it come with an AB leds, it looks to be really easy to add one... cool!
Feb 09, 2018, 10:38 AM
Redneck Injuneer
bill34207's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by killickb
ARF + sold out already @ 10:26 am here in Florida.
I cancelled my ARF+ pre order and ordered the plug n play after they fixed the description and showed it to come with a 9 blade fan instead of the 12 blade. So maybe there's another available now
Latest blog entry: Current Health Conditions
Feb 09, 2018, 10:38 AM
the_PilotRyan
ryramZ's Avatar
Hey guys,

Check out the 3Dpups for this baby!

The stock cockpit looks pretty good too!
Feb 09, 2018, 10:51 AM
Registered User
Tumbler's Avatar
Haha. Well I want 12b for the sound so I am holding out for the 8s version

Quote:
Originally Posted by bill34207
I cancelled my ARF+ pre order and ordered the plug n play after they fixed the description and showed it to come with a 9 blade fan instead of the 12 blade. So maybe there's another available now
Feb 09, 2018, 10:58 AM
Mach One
captain MoMo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3Man03
Here's the first build video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_LsK7VG_yc

This was fast... I am sure captain Mike and Pilot Ryan have one coming as well....
Latest blog entry: ESC and BEC Steup
Feb 09, 2018, 10:58 AM
MQ-5B Driver
Doug Cronkhite's Avatar
I'm gonna bash mine into either the 1976 Bicentennial or Black Bunny from VX-4!
Feb 09, 2018, 11:04 AM
mkpatrick
Do the canopies open?

Is there a convenient way to add AB lights on it?

Just curious, I can't tell by the available pics.
Feb 09, 2018, 11:06 AM
"Aircraftus Fragmentum"
kydawg1's Avatar
Very cool jet.
Feb 09, 2018, 11:13 AM
Registered User
Awesome! I'm sooo there. I'm going to have to seriously try and do a USS Midway VF-151 paint scheme on mine though.

Last edited by Kougar Mark II; Feb 09, 2018 at 11:32 AM.
Feb 09, 2018, 11:22 AM
Where Customers Matter
Freewing F-4 Phantom II 90mm EDF Jet - Build Video - Motion RC (13 min 16 sec)
Quote:
Originally Posted by captain MoMo
This was fast... I am sure captain Mike and Pilot Ryan have one coming as well....
You weren't wrong!
Feb 09, 2018, 11:26 AM
Registered User
avanti127's Avatar
Sweet, Got mine pre-ordered! Can't wait.
Feb 09, 2018, 11:33 AM
You're killin' me Smalls
BrownEyedFool's Avatar
Hmm expected to handle grass as well as the A-10?
Feb 09, 2018, 11:34 AM
Registered User
Habanero's Avatar
Years down the line, and repetition after repetition, I think by now we all get it... Evelyn is an RC Pilot. Seems kinda condescending to keep repeating it, like we should be surprised that a female can do the same thing a man can? Its 2018 but whatever....
Feb 09, 2018, 11:35 AM
world's slowest builder
Air-Jon's Avatar
Very nice work Alpha. Great choice with the single 90 so that no cheaters were required. A twin 80 would have been heavier and less efficient on this airframe and required cheaters.

I like the long nose D model better, but i get the choice of the C model as it allows the option for a US or Rovay Navy livery as well down the road.

I imagine a D model nose could be an optional part as well.

If i were getting one of these....i would be going for the lightweight 6S setup....or going ARF plus and going 12s 3200-3700 with Jetfan 90 , HET 700-1125 and Cc-hv80. This setup works awesome on my smaller TJ F16. It would be killer in here a the amps peak at 85 and 9lbs thrust installed. Same weight as 8S 4000 and lower amps.
Feb 09, 2018, 12:13 PM
Kicking Tires
Wise and astute observations, as always, Air-Jon! Are you peeking in my office?

Habanero, that's an interesting observation, I actually had never looked at it from that perspective. For my part, I'll say I call her Pilot Evelyn because that's what she's told me herself. It's a fun honorific. She's like my lil' sis, but fun fact is that she's a pilot in more ways than RC (paramotor), and she reaches new audiences every day who haven't had the privilege as we have to see her grow up in this hobby over the years. You're right, of course: in 2018 we should all be free to inspire others and be seen as we want to be seen.

To those of us contemplating repaints, I recommend Callie for graphics. We worked with her to size her graphics sets close to the stock lettering, proportions, etc.

As always I look forward to seeing what creations you all come up with. Hoot Gibson emailed me with plans to depict his squadron, and I've got plans in the works for a Recon version. We'll see if there's interest in a 3DPUP set for that..
Feb 09, 2018, 12:14 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habanero
Years down the line, and repetition after repetition, I think by now we all get it... Evelyn is an RC Pilot. Seems kinda condescending to keep repeating it, like we should be surprised that a female can do the same thing a man can? Its 2018 but whatever....
So what? 5 pages of replies on this thread about the new smoking hot F-4 Phantom and you're basically the only person that it matters to, who the person flying this jet is. I bet no one else even noticed. I know I didn't.
Feb 09, 2018, 12:17 PM
Kicking Tires
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evan D
Yes the molded a flat for the AB's on the tail cones...
Correct! AB rings are an easy install the way we set up the plastic cones. Also, the fuse glue joint is along that same plane, so it is very easy to run the power wires up into the spine where the tail servo wires are run. No need to fish wires into the ducts themselves.
Feb 09, 2018, 12:19 PM
Micro-Turbine Superhero
henke's Avatar
I must say a very nice unbox and build by Motion RC.

But the plane.... it's in line with the F15, T45 and even Yak 130 which are 4 years old now. It's a new shape but old tech. I would have expected more. FMS and HSD maked plug in wings etc... I would have expected another level here with easy to disassemble tail too for transport and an even more clever wing fastening system.
Feb 09, 2018, 12:21 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha.MotionRC
Correct! AB rings are an easy install the way we set up the plastic cones. Also, the fuse glue joint is along that same plane, so it is very easy to run the power wires up into the spine where the tail servo wires are run. No need to fish wires into the ducts themselves.
I'm going to have to get those AB rings for this one. On the 90mm F-16 I used to have people coming up to me after I landed asking me if it's a real turbine. I would tell them that it's electric. And they'd say "I saw fire coming out the back of it while it was flying". I'd then tell them about the ring and they'd think it's pretty cool that it looks so "turbine powered" just because of that ring.
Feb 09, 2018, 12:56 PM
Should've, Would've, Could've
v8truckin's Avatar
Ordering Arf plus
Latest blog entry: Freewing Me262
Feb 09, 2018, 12:58 PM
world's slowest builder
Air-Jon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by henke
I must say a very nice unbox and build by Motion RC.

But the plane.... it's in line with the F15, T45 and even Yak 130 which are 4 years old now. It's a new shape but old tech. I would have expected more. FMS and HSD maked plug in wings etc... I would have expected another level here with easy to disassemble tail too for transport and an even more clever wing fastening system.
A project this extensive was probably started 3 years ago at least... The methods of foamy model assembly are changing, but remember there are trade-offs for the features you are asking for...usually weight and price.

I think this F-4 model strikes a nice balance between trendy features and practical proven methods. The single electrical connection for the wings is a big step forward...and it takes a whole 2 seconds to connect. As to the other features you suggest, I don't see any other flying stab large EDFs out there with quick-detach tails for transport... It's not an easy prospect to get right and yet not make a tail heavy plane.

Yes FMS/HSD are making plug in wings, but the results have not always been good. Someday this method will be perfected but until then I'm pretty stoked with a single wing connector.
Last edited by Air-Jon; Feb 09, 2018 at 01:05 PM.
Feb 09, 2018, 01:03 PM
world's slowest builder
Air-Jon's Avatar
[QUOTE=Alpha.MotionRC;39143524]Wise and astute observations, as always, Air-Jon! Are you peeking in my office?QUOTE]

Ha! I wish I could peek in your office!

That really just does not sound right...

We'll just go with brilliant minds think alike:
Feb 09, 2018, 01:06 PM
Over the top, comin' down hard
Quote:
Originally Posted by henke
I must say a very nice unbox and build by Motion RC.

But the plane.... it's in line with the F15, T45 and even Yak 130 which are 4 years old now. It's a new shape but old tech. I would have expected more. FMS and HSD maked plug in wings etc... I would have expected another level here with easy to disassemble tail too for transport and an even more clever wing fastening system.
I say if it ain't broke don't fix it.
Concerning the HSD/FMS's wing plug system, it a rigid system that does not flex with wing flex in flight. It also allows for the pins to slide in and out with flight loads. For both my HSD J-10 ans FMS P-47, I modded them to the floating connection system, similar function to what FW is now using. On my P-47 (a great flyer, BTW), strange things would happen like losing ailerons or 1 gear would quit while flying. The fms a-10's rigid wing probably prevents this problem but still... Look at any full size military bird and you will not find both sides of a plug system free to slide in and out. The fw system is a little more work but it makes more sense from a reliability standpoint.

Concerning a removable tail, I question the cost-to-benefit ratio. I'm sure it would help with transport for few of us. I'm sure they could design this, and a system may come for some future birds design that would benefit from it, I just the don't these birds a large enough to justify it.
Feb 09, 2018, 01:15 PM
Micro-Turbine Superhero
henke's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Air-Jon
A project this extensive was probably started 3 years ago at least... The methods of foamy model assembly are changing, but remember there are trade-offs for the features you are asking for...usually weight and price.

I think this F-4 model strikes a nice balance between trendy features and practical proven methods. The single electrical connection for the wings is a big step forward...and it takes a whole 2 seconds to connect. As to the other features you suggest, I don't see any other flying stab large EDFs out there with quick-detach tails for transport... It's not an easy prospect to get right and yet not make a tail heavy plane.

Yes FMS/HSD are making plug in wings, but the results have not always been good. Someday this method will be perfected but until then I'm pretty stoked with a single wing connector.
I agree with you, but not being easy is not an argument for not evolving. In my mind as stated above I would have hoped for more not just a new shape.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Barron06
I say if it ain't broke don't fix it.


Concerning a removable tail, I question the cost-to-benefit ratio. I'm sure it would help with transport for few of us. I'm sure they could design this, and a system may come for some future birds design that would benefit from it, I just the don't these birds a large enough to justify it.
Well we must ask for better products to keep evolving. These birds last quite a short time and they often look weathered even half way through the build. I'm not saying FMS or HSD do it better but they got things done in a innovative way which makes it easier to assemble. (and other things are missing or worse. ) Breaking it down in the box would be a nice feature that would make it last much longer.

I can do that with the FMS 70mm Avanti fairly easy, I would love a feature like that on this sort of plane too.


If asking for it we get to new levels. If not, well....

(And...I give eflite feedback too when they sell the big Cessna 150 as BNF and it turns out needs assembling for an hour with various tools.... not prectical doing on the airfield which BNF would suggest )
Feb 09, 2018, 01:23 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by bandetlol
500$.. for what? a 6 channel edf? Not even a twin... and this is the pre order price?

I think they are banking on people wanting a f-4 and them having the only offering, not providing a good value.

Like really, think about it. the t-45 had custom designed slats, airbrakes, the same power system, more complicated lg, and is 50$ cheaper. So what if it includes ordinance? Ordinance is just some foam, probably costs them 5 cents to inject.. and they probably use the same missile molds they already had... most people will probably not even use them because they make it fly worse.
I'll address many parts of this comment. First, the foam itself is not the expensive part. The molds for the foam injection are extremely expensive. This is an extremely large model which means there are also many plastic molds for all the scale details. Total mold cost for a plane of this size generally starts at around $60,000. Think of all the F-4 that need to be sold to come close to recovering the cost of the molds. Now add in the cost of the foam, electronics, labor, R&D, C&C and prototypes, licensing, container shipping, product liability insurance, rent, employee salaries, utilities, travel, etc. When you see all the costs involved in making a plane of this size with this amount of detail, you can see the price is super reasonable. Lastly, the cost of the T-45 and all the other super scale 90mm jets were the same when they were introduced. We were able to lower the cost of the T-45 after about 16 months once the factory hit a certain volume. Profit is actually very little on these large models.
Last edited by Tom.MotionRC; Feb 09, 2018 at 01:41 PM.
Feb 09, 2018, 01:26 PM
I hate waiting for parts
Mike_Then's Avatar
I had no idea this existed until I checked my email a few minutes ago. Preordered!! Hope I made it in the first batch.
Feb 09, 2018, 01:30 PM
Suspended Account
Where's the black smoke? Never saw one fly without a trail of black smoke!

Seriously, good looking plane. But I'm a scale builder from way back and it kills my interest when I see servos and all their linkage hanging out in the breeze. Especially on the vert fin. That simply is not scale no matter how you care to explain it away. At the very least, tuck the servos under a hatch cover. In addition I would think the intake ramps and engine tail cones could be molded from something other than foam in order to get those edges down to a thickness more in line with the real one.

But points for the all flying stab and the prototypical ailerons and flaps. Now you need a nose option to bump it up to an 'E' model.

BTW, doesn't sound like a real F-4 either. Where's that deep roar?
Feb 09, 2018, 01:35 PM
Lithium Member
Herb's Avatar
Looks good !

Nice to see that on this one they finally got rid of that performance-killing cheese grater intake

A nice touch is also the choice of the (much lighter but seemingly just as good) 9-blade outrunner plastic fan setup for 6S.

Size-wise it is very close to the good old FlyFly F-4 Phantom (104cm wingspan vs 103cm for the FW one, a 1% difference), so it should fly rather well on one of the/my standard unemployed 8S or 9S (3x3S) WeMoTec Evo or JetFan 90mm setups.

I also noticed the outlet splitter seems to be done well for once (ie sharp) so it doesn't kill fan performance by blowimg a ton of hot air against an ugly rounded step, like in some other hideous single-fan twin-outlet horrors.

And having a nice beefy 30-g digital servo for the FF elevator is a nice touch too, and shows good understanding of aerodynamic stresses as they apply to FF stabs.

I just hope that that nice wing-servo ribbon does not sit loose somewhere in the intake, can't tell from the pictures ... Easy fix though.

Too bad the ARF-Plus is already sold out !

But, it looks like I won't even have to buy any new paints ...

.
Last edited by Herb; Feb 09, 2018 at 01:56 PM.
Feb 09, 2018, 01:35 PM
Suspended Account
Nice plane. Not a fan of the camo personally and that thing would sound great and perform similar to 7s I think with the fms in runner high kv90mm fan combo. Lower wing loading too Blue angel scheme?
Feb 09, 2018, 01:36 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by henke
I must say a very nice unbox and build by Motion RC.

But the plane.... it's in line with the F15, T45 and even Yak 130 which are 4 years old now. It's a new shape but old tech. I would have expected more. FMS and HSD maked plug in wings etc... I would have expected another level here with easy to disassemble tail too for transport and an even more clever wing fastening system.
This is not at all old tech. First, we've experimented with wings with the electronic interface built in and the results and longevity are not good. This is why we use a single wire system which allows the wings to be removed for transport extremely quickly. I feel our system is as easy as anything out there and IMO it is the most reliable system.

Also, did you see the 9B EDF? It provides a perfect balance of sound and efficiency. I'd ask that you reserve judgement until you see the plane. We constantly strive to achieve fantastic reliability, efficiency, innovation, and scale detail at a reasonable cost. I think if you look at this plane vs some of the other mentioned, you'll see there is a massive difference.
Feb 09, 2018, 01:38 PM
Suspended Account
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom.MotionRC
I'll address many parts of this comment. First, the foam injection is not expensive. The molds for the foam injection are extremely expensive. This is an extremely large model which means there are also many plastic molds for all the scale details. Total mold cost for a plane of this size generally starts at around $60,000. The missiles are completely custom to this plane and highly detailed. Think of all the F-4 that need to be sold just to recover the cost of the molds. Now add in the cost of the foam, the electronics, and labor. Add the cost of R&D. We made multiple C&C and prototypes before you ever saw this plane. Add in the cost of travel to work with the factory. Now add in the licensing, container shipping, etc. Not done yet. We still have to add in the cost of product liability insurance, rent, employee salaries, utilities, etc. When you see all the costs involved in making a plane of this size with this amount of detail, you can see the price is super reasonable. Lastly, the cost of the T-45 and all the other super scale 90mm jets were the same when they were introduced. We were able to lower the cost of the T-45 after about 16 months once the factory hit a certain volume. Profit is actually very little on these large models.
Yeah makes sense. Thanks
Feb 09, 2018, 01:40 PM
AeroDan
Phantoms Phorever!!!!
Feb 09, 2018, 01:43 PM
Suspended Account
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom.MotionRC
This is not at all old tech. First, we've experimented with wings with the electronic interface built in and the results and longevity are not good. This is why we use a single wire system which allows the wings to be removed for transport extremely quickly. I feel our system is as easy as anything out there and IMO it is the most reliable system.

Also, did you see the 9B EDF? It provides a perfect balance of sound and efficiency. I'd ask that you reserve judgement until you see the plane. We constantly strive to achieve fantastic reliability, efficiency, innovation, and scale detail at a reasonable cost. I think if you look at this plane vs some of the other mentioned, you'll see there is a massive difference.
I'd also like to say even though to the eye the hsd/fms designs of plugging in wings seems better,the one cable plug is the safer way to go. After time wings will tend to give just a tad bit. With the freewing style plug you don't have to worry as obviously it will give. I bought both the fms A10 and 1500 p47. A10 is still alive but P47 went it from a wing connecter losing contact pulling out from a dive. The freewing design of one plug is the most ideal and most safe
Feb 09, 2018, 01:49 PM
killickb
killickb's Avatar
Think I was correct for Pre Order#1 -- sold out fast. Pre Order#2 for mid May delivery is still open, ARF Plus that is.
Feb 09, 2018, 01:55 PM
JohnVHRC
JohnVH's Avatar
Really great looking bird! Now concentrate on a 70-80mm F100 please
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Feb 09, 2018, 01:57 PM
Registered RC NUT!
The Snake's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by killickb
Think I was correct for Pre Order#1 -- sold out fast. Pre Order#2 for mid May delivery is still open, ARF Plus that is.
It just opened minutes ago!
Feb 09, 2018, 02:02 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Snake
It just opened minutes ago!
I was browsing on the site for a while this morning and it was shocking how many of those little popups in the bottom left corner showing what people were buying said "F-4 Phantom"!! haha!!

I'm glad I got my ARF+ for the April delivery. Lets hope that sticks to schedule.
Feb 09, 2018, 02:02 PM
Classic jets rule
AIR SALLY's Avatar
nice Vid Tony, and that had to be Miss "E" on the camera.... where is that road exactly? I am sure it is a service road south of the 58 at the Mojave exit maybe , looks like a good place to test my FJ-1 .
any way the F-4 is awesome great job to all involved! hmm I wonder if they are making different noses
Feb 09, 2018, 02:02 PM
Where Customers Matter
Update*
Yes, We have sold out of the ARF's from the first batch which had an ETA of mid April. We have opened a new Pre-order on the ARF's for the second production run with an ETA of Mid-May. So anyone whose purchased an ARF already and it said mid-april, don't get confused now that the page says mid-may. You will receive yours in Mid-April while anyone who pre-orders from now on, will be on the Mid-May second run schedule.
Feb 09, 2018, 02:02 PM
Registered User
I had callie make up a set of robin olds decals for my LX Phantom, R.I.P., so I'm going to order up another set for the new FW.
Feb 09, 2018, 02:07 PM
Registered User
Looking forward to more video. Like to see how soon it can rotate and how slow it can land. Starting to get nervous about flying off a 300 ft runway. Don't really want to cancel my pre-order.
Feb 09, 2018, 02:10 PM
Registered User
afjetmech's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha.MotionRC
Correct! AB rings are an easy install the way we set up the plastic cones. Also, the fuse glue joint is along that same plane, so it is very easy to run the power wires up into the spine where the tail servo wires are run. No need to fish wires into the ducts themselves.
So does that mean a nice double, cost saving AB kit is going to be a future option?
Feb 09, 2018, 02:11 PM
Registered User
Poke it wAstick's Avatar
I think they nailed it.

Standard version for most.
8S version for those that wanted a high powered heavy sled like the real one.

I was hoping it would be in SEA colors. Looks great.
Feb 09, 2018, 02:15 PM
Where Customers Matter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poke it wAstick
I think they nailed it.

Standard version for most.
8S version for those that wanted a high powered heavy sled like the real one.

I was hoping it would be in SEA colors. Looks great.
Would love to see you make her in SEA colors!
Feb 09, 2018, 02:18 PM
Registered User
Tumbler's Avatar
I think a lot of people, not all, but a lot of people that think these types of planes are expensive have not grown up during the days when we had to build a plane like this from scratch and take months to do it. We are paying for the convenience of opening up a box and flying an hour later. Even 5 or 10 years ago when foam ducted fans became more popular, just imagine how long it would take to paint and detail it to get to the point this one already is the moment you open the box. You’d pay over $200 for an empty FLY FLY F4 With a horrible paint job and then have to install all of your equipment. You would pay more in the long run for something like that but because you aren’t shelling out all the money at once, it doesn’t seem as costly. $5-600 is not chump change but for what you get and not having to build anything, it’s a pretty darn good deal!
Brian

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom.MotionRC
I'll address many parts of this comment. First, the foam itself is not the expensive part. The molds for the foam injection are extremely expensive. This is an extremely large model which means there are also many plastic molds for all the scale details. Total mold cost for a plane of this size generally starts at around $60,000. Think of all the F-4 that need to be sold to come close to recovering the cost of the molds. Now add in the cost of the foam, electronics, labor, R&D, C&C and prototypes, licensing, container shipping, product liability insurance, rent, employee salaries, utilities, travel, etc. When you see all the costs involved in making a plane of this size with this amount of detail, you can see the price is super reasonable. Lastly, the cost of the T-45 and all the other super scale 90mm jets were the same when they were introduced. We were able to lower the cost of the T-45 after about 16 months once the factory hit a certain volume. Profit is actually very little on these large models.
Feb 09, 2018, 02:26 PM
35 Year Airline Mech Retired
krashem's Avatar
My little FMS 70mm is screaming to be retired but I do have one question from one of the power plant guys.

This F-4 is only 8 oz's lighter than the inrunner version of the F-15, do you guys think that this 6 cell version will fly with even a little more zip?

I am not going 8 cell.
Feb 09, 2018, 02:28 PM
MMAC Brian. K
Rcfiddy1's Avatar
Beautiful job but should be a twin 80mm, Single 90 on these big super scale birds really make it a piggy in the air. egF15.
Feb 09, 2018, 02:30 PM
Redneck Injuneer
bill34207's Avatar
The 6s version is using a new 9 blade fan system with 17?? kv motor from what I read on HS. It should be more efficient than the 12 blade. That bifurb exhaust needs all the efficiency it can get.
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