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Feb 08, 2018, 06:38 PM
Gravity is patient............
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Question

CC Talon 35 esc


When auto learning throttle endpoints, the instructions seem to indicate that I must go through the full range of throttle before every launch? It's not retained after doing it once?
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Feb 08, 2018, 11:49 PM
Registered User
Wintr's Avatar
Yep, that's how it works with several CC ESCs, unless you change them to fixed throttle, and adjust your tx to match the ESC range.
Last edited by Wintr; Apr 17, 2018 at 08:53 PM.
Feb 09, 2018, 08:56 AM
A man with too many toys
I have never liked the Castle Auto-Calibrate Endpoints throttle type because it does not save the values. I never use that option.

I always use the Fixed-Endpoints throttle type and adjust the Tx endpoints to match. That's by far the best way to set it up.

.
Feb 09, 2018, 11:53 PM
Gravity is patient............
Thread OP
Thanks guys. The reason I don't use fixed endpoints with this particular model is I am using it with an MFD AP. And in order for the osd to display the correct throttle position on screen I have to use +/- 125% travel distance on the throttle channel. That won't work with fixed endpoints. If I don't set the travel to that percentage the graphic position of the throttle is not correct. The MFD AP doesn't offer an adjustment.

I guess I'll always start it with throttle at max position. I really like CC escs but this is just a dumb design decision, sorry.
Apr 17, 2018, 06:53 PM
Registered User
HotRod34a's Avatar

CC Talon 35 ESC


Quote:
Originally Posted by billyd60
When auto learning throttle endpoints, the instructions seem to indicate that I must go through the full range of throttle before every launch? It's not retained after doing it once?
I use nothing but CC ESC's and I currently have 14 planes with them installed in them. I have never ever went through the throttle learning sequence more than the first initial learning startup. It is absolutely not necessary to do it each time you start up. That has been in my experience for more than 15 years of using them.
Apr 17, 2018, 08:38 PM
Registered User
Wintr's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by HotRod34a
I use nothing but CC ESC's and I currently have 14 planes with them installed in them. I have never ever went through the throttle learning sequence more than the first initial learning startup. It is absolutely not necessary to do it each time you start up. That has been in my experience for more than 15 years of using them.
I don't know about the older CC ESCs, but the current models, at least the Phoenix types, when set to auto throttle range, reset the end points every time you use one, as long as the throttle goes above, or below, certain pulse widths. I use the data logging function, and if I advance the throttle to about 2/3 on the Tx, the ESC has recorded 100% input (and output), and if I then advance it further, the new value is now 100%, and 2/3 throttle is lower. A similar thing happens on the low throttle side. So, to get full range, you have to go to maximum and minimum throttle on your Tx before a flight. Setting the Tx to match the fixed range ensures you aren't at full throttle for a P-51 takeoff, before you want full throttle, if you forget to go through the max/min sequence while holding it. If you are in the habit of full throttle ROG, then it doesn't really matter if the ESC reaches 100% output before you reach full stick up, as it will soon have that as 100%.

From a document for the Phoenix ESC on the CC web site - note that the manuals for the other types don't mention auto throttle range:
"The ESC will need to "re-learn" the zero throttle and full throttle positions every time you plug in the battery. This is for the auto-calibrate feature only, the fixed endpoint mode in the Phoenix line-up is entirely different.

When it is first powered up, the ESC has its low throttle endpoint set to ~ 1.35ms. The full throttle endpoint is set to ~ 1.70ms. For this example, assume your endpoints are set to 100 low at 1.25ms and 100 high at 1.80ms. If you power up the ESC at mid-stick, the speed controller will not react. If you then drop your throttle stick to zero throttle, the speed controller will arm and recognize that position as zero throttle (1.25ms). If you were then to adjust your endpoint down to 125 on the low endpoint, lets call it a 1.15ms signal, the speed controller will then consider 1.15ms as the low throttle endpoint.

So basically the speed controller will lock onto the lowest signal that it sees from the TX and consider that point as zero throttle. That value is immediately cleared out and set back to ~1.35ms as soon as you disconnect the battery.

As for the high throttle, it works on the same concept. It will only calibrate the full throttle position while you are actually running the motor, so you have to arm the controller first then run the throttle up. Now lets say you only run the stick up to 3/4 throttle, assuming the 3/4 throttle position is sending out a 1.7ms pulse or greater, it will learn that position as full throttle. If you reduce the throttle, the motor will reduce in power. If you then increase the throttle to full-stick (1.80ms) for more than 2 seconds, the speed controller will then learn that position as full throttle.

The recommended procedure, every time you plug in a battery, is as follows:
(on step 4, there are 2 ways of proceeding)
1. Start with the transmitter turned on at mid-stick.
2. Plug in the main flight battery.
3. When ready to fly, reduce the throttle to zero-stick.
4a. Safely secure the plane and run the throttle to 100% for 2-4 seconds. The speed controller will learn the full throttle position. You are ready for the flight line.
4b. Some people prefer not to run the motor up on the bench. You may taxi the plane to the flight line or set it on the flight line. When taking off, run the motor to full throttle for at least to 2 seconds. The speed controller will set itself during the initial take-off.

And remember, as soon as you disconnect the battery, the speed controller losses the zero and full throttle positions; it must be retaught those positions when it is powered back up.

I hope this makes some sense. If you have any additional questions or concerns, please let me know and I will do my best to help clear things up.

Thomas Porfert
Tech Support
Castle Creations "
Last edited by Wintr; Apr 17, 2018 at 09:08 PM.
Apr 18, 2018, 01:28 PM
Registered User
HotRod34a's Avatar
Wintr, Thanks for the info. As I mentioned in my above comment, I have never gone through this procedure except for the very first time I power up after installing in a new airplane. I have never had a issue and my zero and full throttle range is always the same on each plane every flight without recalibrating. I don't really know what to say other than if I had to go through the procedure that you outlined above every time I powered up my planes, then I can assure you that I would not own a single CC ESC. As it is now, I am 100% Castle. Again, what I am doing has always worked for me every time I fly and I am very happy with them.
Apr 18, 2018, 07:22 PM
Registered User
Wintr's Avatar
How you use the throttle at takeoff can determine how you perceive this. I had issues with my P-51, as when I advance the throttle, I did so slowly, to avoid the hard left turn you get if you push it too fast. While the takeoff went OK, I didn't have to push the throttle all the way up, and just cruised around (for other reasons) at mid throttle. After that flight, I downloaded the data from the ESC, and discovered it was near full throttle for nearly the entire flight, which explained why the battery drained before I expected. After some research at CC, I discovered it was because of auto throttle. From then on, once it had successfully launched, I went to full throttle briefly, so I would only be at full throttle when I wanted, and flights lasted the time I expected. \

I also added a sound board, which cut off at the minimum throttle at which it was powered, and used my throttle cut switch to try to keep the motor spinning very slowly when I pulled the throttle to what I thought would be idle, until I flipped the cut switch to zero the throttle. It didn't work, because when I powered the sound board with the cut active to train it, the ESC learned that as the new zero, disrupting my planned idle vs sound off, and not slowing enough to stop the model. After setting the ESC to fixed throttle, it was easy to get the sound card to work as planned.
Last edited by Wintr; Apr 18, 2018 at 07:27 PM.
Apr 21, 2018, 11:44 PM
Gravity is patient............
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wintr
I don't know about the older CC ESCs, but the current models, at least the Phoenix types, when set to auto throttle range, reset the end points every time you use one, as long as the throttle goes above, or below, certain pulse widths. I use the data logging function, and if I advance the throttle to about 2/3 on the Tx, the ESC has recorded 100% input (and output), and if I then advance it further, the new value is now 100%, and 2/3 throttle is lower. A similar thing happens on the low throttle side. So, to get full range, you have to go to maximum and minimum throttle on your Tx before a flight. Setting the Tx to match the fixed range ensures you aren't at full throttle for a P-51 takeoff, before you want full throttle, if you forget to go through the max/min sequence while holding it. If you are in the habit of full throttle ROG, then it doesn't really matter if the ESC reaches 100% output before you reach full stick up, as it will soon have that as 100%.

From a document for the Phoenix ESC on the CC web site - note that the manuals for the other types don't mention auto throttle range:
"The ESC will need to "re-learn" the zero throttle and full throttle positions every time you plug in the battery. This is for the auto-calibrate feature only, the fixed endpoint mode in the Phoenix line-up is entirely different.

When it is first powered up, the ESC has its low throttle endpoint set to ~ 1.35ms. The full throttle endpoint is set to ~ 1.70ms. For this example, assume your endpoints are set to 100 low at 1.25ms and 100 high at 1.80ms. If you power up the ESC at mid-stick, the speed controller will not react. If you then drop your throttle stick to zero throttle, the speed controller will arm and recognize that position as zero throttle (1.25ms). If you were then to adjust your endpoint down to 125 on the low endpoint, lets call it a 1.15ms signal, the speed controller will then consider 1.15ms as the low throttle endpoint.

So basically the speed controller will lock onto the lowest signal that it sees from the TX and consider that point as zero throttle. That value is immediately cleared out and set back to ~1.35ms as soon as you disconnect the battery.

As for the high throttle, it works on the same concept. It will only calibrate the full throttle position while you are actually running the motor, so you have to arm the controller first then run the throttle up. Now lets say you only run the stick up to 3/4 throttle, assuming the 3/4 throttle position is sending out a 1.7ms pulse or greater, it will learn that position as full throttle. If you reduce the throttle, the motor will reduce in power. If you then increase the throttle to full-stick (1.80ms) for more than 2 seconds, the speed controller will then learn that position as full throttle.

The recommended procedure, every time you plug in a battery, is as follows:
(on step 4, there are 2 ways of proceeding)
1. Start with the transmitter turned on at mid-stick.
2. Plug in the main flight battery.
3. When ready to fly, reduce the throttle to zero-stick.
4a. Safely secure the plane and run the throttle to 100% for 2-4 seconds. The speed controller will learn the full throttle position. You are ready for the flight line.
4b. Some people prefer not to run the motor up on the bench. You may taxi the plane to the flight line or set it on the flight line. When taking off, run the motor to full throttle for at least to 2 seconds. The speed controller will set itself during the initial take-off.

And remember, as soon as you disconnect the battery, the speed controller losses the zero and full throttle positions; it must be retaught those positions when it is powered back up.

I hope this makes some sense. If you have any additional questions or concerns, please let me know and I will do my best to help clear things up.

Thomas Porfert
Tech Support
Castle Creations "
Thanks Thomas. Please ask your design department to consider using non-volatile memory on your ESC's in the future so that auto throttle endpoints are retained unless overwritten. Most other brand esc's work this way. I was surprised to see re-calibration for each flight is required by the Talon, and perhaps other CC esc types as well.
Apr 22, 2018, 10:14 AM
Registered User
Most of the Castle ESCs allow you to select either "auto calibrate" or "fixed endpoint" throttle settings. From their website, here is a .pdf download of intructions for the one-time calibrating of fixed endpoints.
https://dzf8vqv24eqhg.cloudfront.net...01607261339-51
May 01, 2018, 08:05 PM
Gravity is patient............
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by jim495
Most of the Castle ESCs allow you to select either "auto calibrate" or "fixed endpoint" throttle settings. From their website, here is a .pdf download of intructions for the one-time calibrating of fixed endpoints.
https://dzf8vqv24eqhg.cloudfront.net...01607261339-51
I understand but I am unable to use fixed endpoints on aircraft that use the MFD AP which I use in many of my planes. That unit requires +/-125% throttle travel so that the OSD displays the throttle stick correctly. There is no way to adjust the graphic. So I must use auto calibrate on my CC esc's. Fortunately my JR radio has stick alarm positions when powered on. So on those models it reminds me to have the throttle stick at max before I power up. A minor quibble but irritating.
Jul 09, 2019, 01:54 PM
I love the fact Talon has a great BEC.
I am currently looking for ESCs for two F5J models.They will be powered by this motor: https://www.topmodel.fr/en/product_detail.php?id=22648
Measured current on ground is 44A which should drop quickly in flight.
Considering it will not be used for more than 5s in this rate is a 35A ESC able to handle a 44A static load?
I would take the 60A version but weight doubles.


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