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Nov 19, 2019, 05:19 PM
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I am still working on that flat spin, but I don't think the model is to blame.. Those of you who have flown with stabilizing gyro, what kind of gains have you tried? I find the model only needs around 20% gains on all 3 channels to have a decent effect but also avoid oscillations. The wide speed range is difficult, I guess there is a sweet spot somewhere around 20-30% gain? I have tried the Hobbyeagle A3, will soon install Frsky S6R. (are gains even comparable between different makes?)
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Nov 19, 2019, 06:03 PM
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seng30904's Avatar
I’ve got a good deal of experience with stabilized receivers. As far as gain settings, I can only tell you that there is no real answer, as far as these type models are concerned. The problem lies in the broad speed range. If you stay in the 3s to 4s rannge, you may be ok, but at higher power, I view them as an instrument of destruction, versus a helpful tool, and won’t use them. Any particular gain setting that is optimized for any given speed, will not be optimal at a faster/slower speed. This usually does not pose any significant problems on a run of the mill park flyer, however, it can, and often does lead to catastrophic results at the speeds these types of models achieve. I do use a stabilized receiver, but for launching only. We don't have the luxury of landing gear that allows up to taxi down the runway to gain enough speed to rotate and assume a nice gradual climb-out. Hand launching means that the model is in the air at whatever speed it is when you let it go, usually a couple of mph.
Gain settings that were a tad to high lead to the demise of my first FunRacer. You will not have time to reduce gains, once you realize that they are too high in flight, as evidenced by any oscillations. By the time you notice your gains may be to high, you will see a spectacular display of your model being separated from its control surfaces, as it assumes a fast paces towards the ground. Go back many pages and you will see this on video.
Possibly one day, we will have available a stabilizer that accounts for speed, that will automatically reduce gains as the models speed increases. Until that day arrives, I will not use them as these types of models (other than launch assist)
Last edited by seng30904; Nov 19, 2019 at 07:24 PM.
Nov 20, 2019, 08:29 AM
Registered User
Great insights! With the A3 gyro, launching is extremely easy as it has an «attitude hold» flight mode, so I just point the model around 30 degrees up, upwind, set the attitude hold, give it around 60-70% throttle and a gentle shove, some right rudder and off it goes in a straight line. Works for the scary inverted launch method also. Gains are around 50% for launch mode (attitude hold). Then i change to gyro off or slight stabilization on a 3 position switch. I use this setup on other planes also. Seng, with the S6R, do you cheat the level calibration to achieve an upward pitch in level mode, or do you launch in stabilization mode? You seem to be at a level where you could set gains by mixing telemetry speed data if you wanted, but I guess you don’t need or want stabilization in flight anyway. Spectacular video! ;-)
Nov 20, 2019, 08:56 AM
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john2kx's Avatar
I use jeti with stabilizer built into rx and find 20% gain on all 3 axis to be a good starting point. Gain settings will vary between the different manufacturers due to how the base line algorithms are written. I have several choices on how the base line is established by choosing a certain model type in the stabilizer settings (3D, jet, glider, trainer, etc.). I use "jet" for my pylon racers and find the factory settings to work well in the RB and FR. I also run a gain adjust via the right slider on my Tx. This allows for fine tuning based on wind velocity. The gains are optimally set with slider in the center position to allow adjustment in both directions of center.

One of my models is equipped with a Power Box gps to monitor speed. Although I have not tried it yet, it is possible to adjust gyro gain based on speed. To date, I just use the slider.........launch at max gain, turn it down to 50% for the flight and then turn it back up for landing. I'll try the gps to gain mix one of these days but don't find it necessary on the pylon and edf planes I am currently flying. Maybe more of a advantage on a 3D plane.

For those that don't know, Seng and I fly together. I've been impressed with his Frsky equipment when it comes to price but feel jeti is easier to use, program, view logs etc.. Another plus for Frsky is how well the gyros work during the dreaded launch. For me, this has been the most difficult part of flying these landing gear less racers. I would trade off this capability and fly with no stabilizer in flight if I had the choice.

John
Nov 20, 2019, 10:20 AM
Registered User
Jeti is the gold standard in my area also, but if you show up with a shiny ds-16 you have to deliver some quality flying too.. Besides, the telemetry integrated esc’s and other components seem to be mostly geared for larger models, f5j and other competitive use.
Nov 20, 2019, 10:43 AM
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john2kx's Avatar
I’m hoping the new mezon pro addresses that issue. Have the 80 in my FR but have not flown it yet. Fits this model fine with a 3300 6S but too big for EFXtra and v900. Hard to beat all the data from a single device and only one wire to rx necessary.

I’m in too deep to think about switching brands now. Perhaps, if I had to do it all over again, I’d go frsky.
Last edited by john2kx; Nov 20, 2019 at 10:59 AM.
Nov 20, 2019, 05:00 PM
Registered User
I looked up the mezon pro 80, extremely nice piece of hardware! I guess some of the LMR variations could work also, even if run continuously if the airflow is good. I guess they are meant to sit in the tight fuselage of a competition glider? It would make sense for Jeti to have bus telemetry on everything. The Frsky transmitters are ok, but even my x10s express is just an average quality abs moulding with standard components, a cheap but bright lcd screen, some relatively poor fitting hatches and covers, a high finish cfrp face plate that appears to be real, and ok synthetic rubber details. Nice gimbals, but with slightly uneven response in the corners of travel even when calibrated carefully. The installed firmware was not really useable, so I had to suffer through some youtube videos to get opentx installed. Much better now, but lots of work. None of the brands are available locally, but parts for the frsky radio are at least easily available online.
Nov 20, 2019, 05:59 PM
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john2kx's Avatar
The mezon 80 pro is a bit thicker than most due to the installed heat sink. You may have seen my earlier post/pic that shows how I cut a opening in fuse of FR to allow airflow from exterior of fuse to cool esc. The heat sink is removable with 4 screws and I had esc installed initially with heat sink removed but felt better about cutting a hole in fuse for maximum airflow since I expect to run esc at or above it's advertised rating of 88 amps. With Kontronic esc's, running with a heat sink and good airflow, they double the maximum amp draw allowed.
Last edited by john2kx; Nov 20, 2019 at 06:17 PM.
Nov 21, 2019, 11:57 AM
Registered User
It will be interesting to see how that esc performs! Clean looking esc installation, heatsink exposed to external airflow.
Nov 22, 2019, 12:10 AM
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seng30904's Avatar
Received a new model today. It’s another foamy Racer called a Havoc. My plans are to see if it can run with the big dogs.
Nov 22, 2019, 02:38 PM
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S2k2's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by seng30904
Received a new model today. It’s another foamy Racer called a Havoc. My plans are to see if it can run with the big dogs.
Been there, done that! it can definitely do that....its a great airframe....
Nov 22, 2019, 02:58 PM
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seng30904's Avatar
We’ll see . I should maybe define what I mean by “run with the big dogs”.
Nov 23, 2019, 01:51 AM
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Will you try the same motor/esc/battery combination from the FR in the Havoc? That plane needs a green paint job too!
Nov 23, 2019, 08:47 AM
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seng30904's Avatar
“Green paint job”, that’s too funny. The 6sbattery that I use in my F/R will not fit into the Havoc. I will need to find/source a smaller 6s. I do plan on changing out the esc only to allow telemetry. I will try to utilize the stock motor for now. As of now, I put the Havoc back into its box for another day. Been into “glow” power for the last couple of weeks. Picked up a small sport plane, complete with an OS 26fs from a local pawn shop a few days ago. I forgot what it’s like to get 15 minutes flights
Last edited by seng30904; Nov 23, 2019 at 01:55 PM.
Nov 23, 2019, 10:17 AM
Julian T
Watching with interest.

RE stabilisers - these models don't need them imo. I flew my RB for half a dozen flights with the stock AS3X rx and then replaced with a non stabilised rx and could not tell the difference. I did not notice the AS3X help in launch either but they may have advanced in the 4+ years since then. For launch I set up a condition with around 3mm right rudder and 1mm right aileron. The aileron has little effect anyway till the plane gets on step. Launching with wings level and nose up 20 to 30 degrees and 60% throttle sees the RB and the FR away easily every time.

I think I have blown my stock FR motor up as it now chatters and won't run. I have checked all connections and they appear fine but I will resolder all joints on the motor wire connectors to be sure.


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