Gents (and ladies if there are any here)

I'm kicking around the idea of picking up a kit for a rainy day. I'm a sport flier, not a pattern flier. I tried competing (and finished where I deserved- at the bottom!) a couple of times back in the 70s when I was a kid-don't have the practice time, the eyesight, or the inclination to try to compete these days but I still like flying pattern airplanes. I discovered that there are a bunch of airplanes that I know nothing about- hence this thread. (I was in grad school in the 80s- wasn't building/flying much.)

Here's what I'm looking for-
1) glass fuse- preferably one that won't break the bank- think Leo's stuff is a bit out of my league- also don't think I'm a good enough pilot to tell the diff.
2) Early turnaround- like the look of the airplanes- don't want the speed of full ballistic. Being a long time electric flier and FF flier, I build light happily.
3) Will be electric- think a pipe tunnel is a waste here.
4) .60 size or smaller. I have a small car and I prefer one piece wings.
5) Will deal with retracts if needed- prefer electrics to pneumatics- but I fly off a grass field- might have a smooth dirt diamond for takeoff. Fixed gear is an advantage.

Note- have a balsa Curare with fixed taildragger gear under construction- will get back to it one of these days. If I could figure out the mount setup- I'd be happier.

Like the aesthetics of the Aurora- don't know the size though. Don't like the aesthetics of modern pattern ships.

TIA

Sam

>>Here's what I'm looking for-
1) glass fuse- preferably one that won't break the bank- think Leo's stuff is a bit out of my league- also don't think I'm a good enough pilot to tell the diff.
2) Early turnaround- like the look of the airplanes- don't want the speed of full ballistic. Being a long time electric flier and FF flier, I build light happily.
3) Will be electric- think a pipe tunnel is a waste here.
4) .60 size or smaller. I have a small car and I prefer one piece wings.
5) Will deal with retracts if needed- prefer electrics to pneumatics- but I fly off a grass field- might have a smooth dirt diamond for takeoff. Fixed gear is an advantage.

Note- have a balsa Curare with fixed taildragger gear under construction- will get back to it one of these days. If I could figure out the mount setup- I'd be happier.

Like the aesthetics of the Aurora- don't know the size though. Don't like the aesthetics of modern pattern ships.<<

So you are encompassing an era from the Curare to just before the guppies. I think Leo's stuff is really the most reasonable unless you went the used route. Maybe some of the Chinese ARFs can be less expensive but won't have the quality. So you have to pick between quality and price. Just like everything else in life. Between $250 to $450 you are talking about lower quality Chinese ARF's. Leo's will set up back between $450 to $600 which is really a lower end of good quality pattern planes. Then you have the sky is the limit including those collector's item MK kits which you still have to build.

If you can stumble across some of the older fiberglass fuse planes from RC City for a good price then consider yourself very lucky. Planes like the Tiporare, Conquest, Phoenix etc. Then you have the old Henry Piorun kits like the Zeus, Cursor and Meridians. I still have the Dave Stuart Ariel but that cost me $1100 back in the 90's.

If you want something to do sport flying and at reasonable cost I think you are talking about balsa short kits that you have to build.

Another option is the Marabu ARFs from Sky Aviation. They are having a sale (possibly close out) and the cost is very reasonable. Depending on your location there will be quite a bit of shipping costs.

Aurora is cost prohibitive if you want the original MK kit. You can get a modern laser cut from Leo I believe. Then there is the Atlanta. The original Zigsaw kit is excellent but again cost prohibitive if you can find one. The one from Leo at $500 is very reasonable. So I don't know what to tell you. Glass fuse takes a lot of effort to kit and there isn't a lot of demand. Any design can be used to fly turnaround. It is simply a discipline instead of a requirement for a specific plane design.

What Hansen wrote is very good advice. I do have one suggestion for you. It is called the “Runaround” by Dick Hanson. Dick designed the Tipo and wrote the pattern column for Model Builder. It is a all balsa model so no Fiberglass fuse but is a great airplane. You should be able to get the plans from Model Aviation since they bought the plans from Model Builder. Again, Hansen’s advice will lead to a quicker build but, hey, you might save a few bucks with the Runaround.
Frank

Hi guys

Thanks for the ideas.

Now I'm wondering if I'm missing something somewhere...

What about RCAiir.com? (Don) His prices run about $275 for a glass fuse and wood pack of contest balsa is about $110 and he has a pretty long list of airplanes- most of which I don't know. Please note- I don't know Leo (Ballistic Aircraft Company) or Don.

Also- I had a baby Meridian (30" maybe?)- it was a great little airplane- I'd love to pick up another. I suspect I wouldn't mind one in a larger size either.

Frank- most of my building is balsa- so I have no strong objection to a balsa kit. It's just that occasionally feeling lazy- a glass fuse is really nice.

$$ are not that tight- if I need to save up to go to over $500 for a kit- I will. I just worry that I'm not a good enough pilot for it to matter.

@ Seismic- really not fond of ARFs- would prefer to build my own. Also not interested in used for the same reason.

I'm really just trying to get a handle on what I should be looking for- don't know the Conquest (know Tiporare also Phoenix's) or the Zeus, or Cursor.

Sam

Based on your pre-requisites and your familiarity with Don's catalogue (continually growing), I will recommend 2 airplanes:
The Exception (glass and foam version of the Deception)
The Brushfire
Both have very thick wing airfoils and simply don't fly that fast. No pipe tunnel (though I am assuming you mean a belly pan). 1-piece wings and easy to modify to fixed gear. Also, a bit smaller than most turnaround pattern ships even 60 sized, except the Supra-Fly and the Flash.
Leo has the molds for most or all of Dick Hanson's designs including the Runaround, but it does not seem to be planned for release in the immediate future (I would contact Leo directly regarding the Runaround). The Runaround also had 3 wing options; small, for OS 91 4-stroke; medium, for piped 60 or YS 91; large for 1.20 4-stroke or similar.

>>What about RCAiir.com? (Don) His prices run about $275 for a glass fuse and wood pack of contest balsa is about $110 and he has a pretty long list of airplanes- most of which I don't know. Please note- I don't know Leo (Ballistic Aircraft Company) or Don. <<

Sorry I must admit I get Don and Leo mixed up quite a bit. Mostly because I am old and my memory is not the best. I lust over Leo's website a lot because it has pretty pictures of all the fuselages. Don only has a list of planes so no website for me to browse.

>>Also- I had a baby Meridian (30" maybe?)- it was a great little airplane- I'd love to pick up another. I suspect I wouldn't mind one in a larger size either.<<

I am a big snob. I don't consider the 30" size planes a "pattern plane" per se. They are wonderful little sport flyers but not quite enough to do any serious pattern work since they get very small very fast.

>>It's just that occasionally feeling lazy- a glass fuse is really nice. <<

It is an it isn't. Personally I find that fiberglass fuselages are nice and pretty but to get the degree of precision while building is no less work. The work is different. Most of the time I prefer to sand balsa than glass. Glass work is better done wet and balsa prefers dry sanding. The both have their good points and it is up to the individual's preferences. Sometimes it is nice to mix them up a bit.

Actually I have the Piorun Meridian 900 and the Dave Stuart 120 size Ariel but I am procrastinating on them both because of the fiberglass fuselages. Now they are both pretty much built by Piorun and Stuart and all I have to do is to finish them yet I procrastinate.

>>$$ are not that tight- if I need to save up to go to over $500 for a kit- I will. I just worry that I'm not a good enough pilot for it to matter.<<

To me the fiberglass fuselage planes represent the epitome of a pattern plane so that means I have to spend more time and be more diligent in making sure the plane is perfect. That in itself is stressing me out more. So I wound up whipping together a balsa kit or short kit and get a nice sport flyer out of it. No I am not trying to convince you to build another balsa plane. Just trying to give you a different perspective in case you have not think about it from that point of view.

>>@ Seismic- really not fond of ARFs- would prefer to build my own. Also not interested in used for the same reason. <<

Very good. Me neither. I do have to confess I am flying a Tower Hobby Kaos ARF. The reason is two fold. I wanted to test if the vendor really offered free shipping to Hawaii and second I wanted to test a 15cc gasoline engine in it instead of 10cc glow.

>>I'm really just trying to get a handle on what I should be looking for- don't know the Conquest (know Tiporare also Phoenix's) or the Zeus, or Cursor.<<

I don't know anything about Zeus, Cursor or Phoenix since I never flown one. I am sure they will all fly fine. I do know the Conquest (what ever the last number was, I cannot remember. It was either IV or VI. I was never very good with roman numerals). It was one of the finest flying plane either for competition or sport flying. So lay back and smooth.

So bottomline is you need to choose whether you are serious enough to build something to perfection or another sport flyer is enough to satisfy you. If you want the best of the best and want to build it perfectly but working out and fixing every building flaw then Leo's fiberglass kits will be the one to get.

If a good sport flyer will satisfy your yearning a good all balsa plane is not out of the question. Or talk a bit via email with Don and see what he can provide. Just remember an empty fiberglass fuselage does take a lot of work to build. Things like installing the wing tube if there is any or gluing the horizontal stabilizer requires a lot of jigging and trammeling. Lucky we have laser levels nowadays. Even sanding the inside of the fuselage, measuring and installing reinforcements and/or formers can be challenging working on the inside of the fuselage. At least you will be mixing a lot of epoxy.

@ Flywilly-

We have a different aesthetic sense- wasn't crazy about the Brushfire or the Exception but thought that the Deception looked OK. Saw a video of the Supra Fly 60 flying though- that looked very sweet- I think that's the type of airplane I'm looking for. Don't think I'd want anything bigger.

@ Seismic- I try to remember this is a hobby and not to take it too seriously. I try not to get obsessive about my airplanes- and I'm definitely a sport flyer. At the end of the day the airplane has to fly- and I have to be cognizant that they all come with expiration dates.

I've built a couple of smaller glass fuse airplanes- they do seem to go together quicker than balsa.

Sam

>> Saw a video of the Supra Fly 60 flying though- that looked very sweet- I think that's the type of airplane I'm looking for. Don't think I'd want anything bigger.<<

Ok you finally got it out of me. Personally the Supra Fly and the closely related Supra Star are the epitome of turnaround pattern plane. I had the 45 size Supra Fly and the 60 size Supra Star. To me they just "float" through the air for the lack of a better word. They did everything I asked and perfectly even though both of them were the EZ ARFs.

Right now I am trying to convince David Oxilia (I hope I am succeeding) in getting a 30cc size Supra Fly drawn up so I can build one. I no longer compete so I am also sport flyer and cannot think of a better pattern plane than the large Supra Fly.

>>@ Seismic- I try to remember this is a hobby and not to take it too seriously. I try not to get obsessive about my airplanes- and I'm definitely a sport flyer. At the end of the day the airplane has to fly- and I have to be cognizant that they all come with expiration dates.<<

I used to obsess over the accuracy of my pattern planes. I trammel everything to within 1/64". I balance the plane both on the CG and laterally. Yes they all have expiration dates and some much too soon.

>>I've built a couple of smaller glass fuse airplanes- they do seem to go together quicker than balsa.<<

I guess if you don't obsess over them they must be quicker. Then again I don't like to paint them. I obsess over that also.

Sam,

Conquest IV was an early turn-around design by Canadian Dave Patrick. It was a very successful design flown by many big names at the time.

I built mine and converted it to electric. Here is the link to the thread. Everything you need to know to get you in the air.

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...r-Build-Thread

Don at RCAiir created his mold off of my plane before we finished it. So he will sell you the fiberglass fuselage you are looking for and foam cores.

So, here's a viable option that I believe meets your criteria.

What ever you do, have fun doing it.

Doug

Sam and Doug,

I have the original Conquest IV mold and the rest of the molds from Phillips Aircraft, The molds are primed and ready to make airplanes. My webmaster will make the appropriate site updates shortly.

Leo
Ballistic Aircraft Company, LLC

Originally Posted by pattern one

Sam and Doug,

I have the original Conquest IV mold and the rest of the molds from Phillips Aircraft, The molds are primed and ready to make airplanes. My webmaster will make the appropriate site updates shortly.

Leo
Ballistic Aircraft Company, LLC

Sorry Leo, not taking sides here. I did now know that you had the original molds and offered the Conquest IV.

Doug

Hi Doug

I read through your thread- Great job- and yes, you owe your buddy Kevin a LOT of beers....it's good to have friends like that.

@ Doug and Leo

However, I don't think the Conquest is a good match for what I'm looking for-

Biggest issue- trike gear. You're flying off pavement and that's in short supply here. And grass with a trike really limits the props you can use.

However- the airplane flies really nicely. It's dawned on me that I've tried some ballistic pattern ships- am looking for something slower. Ideally- fixed conventional gear like the Yoshioka Flash. If I've got to go to retracts- would prefer a tail dragger so I can get the ground clearance. The other thing I learned from your thread is that glass fuses can use nosering mounts for outrunners which is a huge advantage over balsa- although if I were actually building the airplane with the idea of making it electric from the get go- I suspect coming up with a mount for an outrunner wouldn't be too tough- it's just working with an existing glow setup can be a PITA.

Sam

I second the choice of a Dick Hansen Runaround. There was an all balsa magazine plan, but also a glass fuselage, foam wing version that was much more common. I had one and competed with it for a few years. It was my favorite. They build light, aren't particularly fast, and will land slow if
light.
I recently managed to pick up another one partially built one at a swap meet with a new set of Springaire retracts for $40!

I'd go with a Runaround- preferably glass/foam. Anyone got a kit that they want to get rid of?

Sam

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