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Mar 13, 2018, 05:15 PM
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Thread OP
I'm still awaiting my Poly Resin to arrive.

I would appreciate any advise from you experienced guys on the tricks and traps involved with glassing and resin application and finishing. I have no experience there.

I got bored and" somewhat brave" today and very carefully removed every other form from the hull. It actually went pretty well. The rest of them are somewhat loose but I left them in place. The hull seems to be holding it's shape but I have to be very careful with the planking at the top of the rail edge until I can get some glass reinforcement there. I guess the next step is to cut out the plywood final forms with allowances for the radio platform and the upper deck supports.

I had to locate and mark the Water Line on the hull to give me a reference line for the other measurements. It took me a while to figure out how to do that. Fortunately I had set up my stand to keep the frame mounting blocks level with the bench top. Then a couple of measurements transferred to the plan allowed me to draw a l reference line on the plan and I was in business.

I think I am about to enter a new phase?
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Mar 13, 2018, 07:10 PM
SCALE Sailor
JerryTodd's Avatar
I run a pencil along the forms inside. Sometimes it's nice to have the station lines marked in the hull when you're measuring stuff.
Mar 14, 2018, 04:15 PM
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Thread OP
Encouraged by yesterdays experiment, I removed the remaining forms from the hull this afternoon. I was very pleased to discover that the hull did not implode, collapse or disintegrate ! Much work still required. A couple of the plank seams split a little and had to be re-glued. There is also a a glue residue trail where each form was located. I will have to at least smooth those over. The good side is I have each form location clearly marked. There are a couple of thin spots requiring attention on the inside also. More issues from using thin balsa planking.

Taking it outside in the sunshine I discovered a few flaws in the outside skin that weren't supposed to be there, and which will need some more filler and sanding. I will have to fit some of the old forms in place to provide support for that. There is also a slight alignment problem with the stem from dead vertical. I think I can live with that, it's not like this thing will be traveling supersonic!
Mar 15, 2018, 06:49 AM
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Gammon Iron's Avatar
Congratulations! The hull looks great. This is my favorite time of building.
Mar 15, 2018, 01:36 PM
Registered User
yea...me too....when the lines of the hull start coming together and you can sit back and look at it from every angle.....the rest is all hard work haha...
Mar 17, 2018, 06:56 PM
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Thread OP
A little more progress...

I have two coats of resin on the inside of the hull. This has firmed up the balsa planking a lot. Started cutting the permanent frames, I had to start from scratch with plywood, since the original shadow frames were foam poster board. I am going to try it with five. That's a bit less than half of the build shadow frames.

This got me thinking about radio platforms, servos, rudders and ballast tubes.

Speaking of control systems, since this is my first square rigger, is there any advantage to hooking the masts and sails together on one servo for simplicity? I had originally planed on separate servos, one per mast. Then there are the fore and aft sails and rudder. How many channels (servos) do I need? I guess it's time to study some build logs again. My schooner only has two, rudder and sails. Very simple compared to this brig.

I'm going to continue to work on this mock-up as far as I can. It MIGHT even make it to the WATER ! But it won't be a super detailed scaled build, I will keep it very simple and learn about controlling the thing on the water and wind. I still have much to learn!

I have also started on the Mark II hull with plywood frames and pine planking. Hopefully it will be a better build and I will try to make it pretty. The keel and the shadow frames are all cut out and ready to assemble on the building board. I won't do a detail build log on it, just report in on major milestones.

Rod
Mar 19, 2018, 06:56 PM
Registered User
Thread OP
I have completed the layout and cutting out of the permanent frames. There are five of them made from 1/4 birth plywood.

Here are a couple of photos with them just clamped in place. I still need to sand the second coat of resin before I glue them in place. The frames themselves still need a bit if sanding too. I plan on using 5-minute epoxy. What I came up with looks to be pretty beefy compared to Jerry's Macedonian build frames though. Did I over do it? This hull is quite a bit smaller than his. I figured too much is better that not enough?

I also finished drilling the pilot holes through the keel up into the hull for the ballast mounting rods. Amazingly, they came out without interfering with any forms or masts, and seem to clear of the area I left open for radio gear. Pure dumb luck!

Rod
Mar 19, 2018, 10:38 PM
SCALE Sailor
JerryTodd's Avatar
You can certainly control both masts together, Constellation's sailed that way every time, though she's not meant to operate in that manner when complete. You get more control if you run the masts separately. It's even possible to rig everything, including the fore-n-afts, to one servo, but then you need to get clever - see my post in Design Details for an example.
Mar 24, 2018, 07:59 AM
Damp and Dizzy member
Brooks's Avatar
As a beginner squarerig sailor, you will want all the help you can get. That means each mast of your brig will need it's own servo. One of the big differences between multimasted vessels and sloops is that the sails of a multimaster have more control over the hull than the rudder does. You will be using your sails to steer as much, or more than, you will be using the rudder. So, your brig will need 3 servos: 1)foremast sails and jibs, 2)mainmast sails and spanker, 3)rudder. With this setup, you will be able to tack, wear, (and sail backwards if needed). With 3 servos you will be able to do all the maneuvers the real ships did.

The only thing you won't be able to do with 3 servos is reef and furl the sails --- that's pretty advanced, but there are a few modelers who've done it (with more servos). It's a lot easier to just physically remove the yards (and their attached sails) manually on shore. You will need to be able to do this so that you can sail in light winds (all sails) and heavy winds (just a few sails). Real ships only set all their sails when the winds were light to medium speeds. Your model operates under the same physics as real ships, so you will need to be able to reduce sail area as the wind picks up. If the model is overpowered (too much sail area for the wind conditions), and heeled at 45deg angle, it's difficult-to-impossible to steer....been there done that :-/

See my Pamir threads for suggestions, and for how I rigged the servos. The first thread has link to 2nd thread at the end.
Pamir first thread:
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...ue-pond-sailer
Last edited by Brooks; Mar 24, 2018 at 08:09 AM.
Mar 26, 2018, 02:08 PM
Registered User
Thread OP
Brooks and Company,

Thanks much for the input, I read through all of that servo rigging stuff and a bit more, multiple times, but I am still a little confused, there seem to be multiple possible options. I have a pretty good idea of ways described, but I may have more questions later.

My schooner came as a complete kit, with everything except batteries and varnish and with the rigging laid out in detail even to the length required for the braces. It used 2 servos using servo arms. One servo for rudder, and one for all the sails. It was the first time I had touched anything RC.

This project is much more complex. and I really need some guidance.

What I could use now is some suggestions on exactly which Servo Units, Receivers, Transmitter units and Servo arms or pulleys, would work best for this application.

By way of basic specs:

I have a hull that is 27" at the water line, 31.5" beakhead to transom"
Radio compartment is 6.5" x 4" x 2.25" deep.

Approximate total sail area at 325 sq inches, 4 sails per mast.

I have the hull about ready to fiberglass, this week, and then I will set up mast steps and deck and hatch layout. Etc.

Thanks
Rod
Mar 27, 2018, 12:11 AM
Balsa Lover
gupi's Avatar
The hull came out very pretty!
Mar 27, 2018, 10:18 PM
SCALE Sailor
JerryTodd's Avatar
Some folks, many in fact, use what's come to be called "Parallelogram Bracing."

Simply put, you mount a full arm on the servo that's got holes at either end maybe 2" from the center (4" apart). From here a brace runs up to the yard from either hole and attached to it's yard 2" from the yards center. When the servo arm rotates, the yard rotates. You can have a separate servo for each mast and even sheet the driver to one arm and the heads'ls to the other and run the whole boat on 3 channels.

The draw back is that servos tend to be too fast, not just for scale, but something can snag and break with everything being whipped back and forth so quick. Maybe you could program them slower through your Tx, or a servo speed regulator.

I don't recall where this came from but it's someone's plan to operate a brig, though they chickened out on setting the main course. This is using the Parallelogram Bracing set-up described.

Name: 6. Sheeting schematic - not to scale.jpg
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Mar 28, 2018, 07:09 AM
Registered User
Gammon Iron's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryTodd
Some folks, many in fact, use what's come to be called "Parallelogram Bracing."

Attachment 10838580
Jerry: I like this idea. But I have a question about the sheeting for the jibs/staysails/mainsail. If on starboard tack with the sheets for the jibs/staysails sheeted in, shouldn't the sheet for the mainsail be attached on the opposite side of the arm?

(Hoping this is not a thread hijack )
Mar 28, 2018, 07:46 AM
SCALE Sailor
JerryTodd's Avatar
Typically the jibs work with the foremast, and the driver with the main when they're connected like this. When you come-about, usually the main is brought around first. Then, after being backed against the wind to push the bow around, the fore is brought around. Brought over too soon it kills your momentum and you're in irons.
Mar 28, 2018, 01:10 PM
Registered User
Thread OP
OK guys, you are still a bit over my head. I'm starting with almost zero knowledge on this radio stuff.

It seems that my best option will be a three channel system, rudder, fore and main, with appropriate connections for the spanker and jibs. From my study so far I could use servo arms or winches. Servo arms require some room to swing, winches require less space (maybe depending on winch diameter ?), And servo speed seems to be a factor. So how is that controlled?

So, basic question: Can a single servo drive either a arm or a winch? Or are they different unique devices?
Second basic question: Size or power, Are servos sold by size/load range, and how do I determine what is needed?

I may be getting ahead of myself, but I am trying to figure out whether to go with Control Arm or Winch? And what hardware to order for my hull size and sail area?


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