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May 19, 2018, 11:14 AM
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I understand that in certain circumstances it may change the way one flys, but the rule would be the same for everyone so it does not really matter from a strategy perspective. There are plenty of cases were wind or huge sink comes up and returning to the field is impossible for even the best competitors with the best judgement. Why would the safety of the plane and people in that case be different than the when the wind switches to downwind for a landing approach? It's not - it's only about the rules allowing for safe flying..

Both rules should be changed - just my opinion...
Jim
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May 19, 2018, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimsoars
I understand that in certain circumstances it may change the way one flys, but the rule would be the same for everyone so it does not really matter from a strategy perspective. There are plenty of cases were wind or huge sink comes up and returning to the field is impossible for even the best competitors with the best judgement. Why would the safety of the plane and people in that case be different than the when the wind switches to downwind for a landing approach? It's not - it's only about the rules allowing for safe flying..

Both rules should be changed - just my opinion...

Jim
I do agree with having the restart option. What I dont agree is to have let people use it in the USA when the FAI rules are different. If we are flying 5J we are flying 5J. Otherwise, dont call it 5J.

If the FAI rules dont change, then do not let people restart while flying 5J in the USA
May 19, 2018, 01:03 PM
NorCal Electric Soaring (NES)
SoaringDude's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by marios
If the FAI rules dont change, then do not let people restart while flying 5J in the USA
Mario, every year the Tour advisory group reviews the restart rule for the USA Tour and decides whether to keep it going. So far the vast majority of pilots who actually fly in most of our F5J USA Tour events want to keep it. Each pilot has the option to fly with or without it. In my case during most events I do not use it.

After watching almost all of the Vegas flight groups, having restarts enabled seemed to have gotten more pilots in trouble downwind than it actually helped.

Chris
www.f5j-usa.com
May 19, 2018, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marios
I do agree with having the restart option. What I dont agree is to have let people use it in the USA when the FAI rules are different. If we are flying 5J we are flying 5J. Otherwise, dont call it 5J.

If the FAI rules dont change, then do not let people restart while flying 5J in the USA
Actually - if you read the rules there is no actual restart rule! There are approved devices and there are explicit penalties of zero flights for either an unapproved device or a device that does not record a height (as happens with a restart) . There is NO rule explicitly defining a DQ or other penalty for either of those infractions. So if you read the rules literally, then the penalty is a zero for a restart - period - just what we do now in the F5J Tour.

Anecdotally, my understanding is that no one in Europe has been disqualified despite having restarts. So while it appears there is a no restart rule, in fact the evidence says that is not actually enforced. Since the only penalty for a non-compliant device is a zero flight, that means a penalty cannot be assessed until and after an illegal flight has been performed.

So this is about the approach to enforcement!

The tour's approach is that USE of a restart demonstrates an illegal device, or a failure of the device to record a height and as such gets a zero flight penalty as defined in the FAI rules.

One could argue that every device should be checked every flight to ensure a legal device was used and then a zero penalty is assessed. That is obviously not realistic.

The bottom line is that the rules are poorly written and need to be clarified in the next iteration.

There are many thoughts on this and if you look at the thread pertaining to the restart rule in the electric section you can see much of the more detailed discussion. I am currently assessing the approach for the Team Selections. No matter what I decide there will be someone that is unhappy and disagree.
Jim
Jun 15, 2018, 01:51 AM
Camber down and screw it up.
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Epic flight video from F5J in Las Vegas 2018.


A lot of people asked about the video camera mounted on my Xplorer. I always fly with a Mobius camera so I can review the flight later, or check out anything interesting that may have happened during the flight (hawks, bald eagles, airplanes, etc.).

It took a while, but here's a video from the first day of the F5J in Las Vegas contest in Sandy Valley. This was Round 4, Group 4, which turned out to be the last group of the day, as the contest was postponed due to high winds. And man, was it windy. But the thermals were still huge, and strong.

I only intended to launch to around 150m, but I went WAY out SW (directly into the wind). By the time I was ready to shut off, I was climbing rapidly in a huge thermal. The F5J altitude is measured 10 sec. after motor shut off. Turns out I launched to 206m! And I was in a huge thermal and headed skywards. 98 seconds after motor shutoff I was up to 416m.

Apparently, no one else went out as far as I did, as I soon noticed planes landing all around me. At around 5 minutes, I was the last one up. I brought it around and tried to set up for a landing, I knew the wind would make it extra challenging. I managed to get a 45 landing, after a flight of 8:48 to win the round. Immediately thereafter, I heard a bunch of people cheering me. First time that's ever happened.

The contest was called due to high wind shortly thereafter. I didn't do so well on Sunday, and didn't make the flyoffs. But I had a really great time.

--
Greg

F5J in Las Vegas RC model Sailplane contest. May 2018 In Flight Video (3 min 38 sec)
Last edited by gdouglas; Jun 22, 2018 at 06:21 PM. Reason: change 'Desert' to 'Las Vegas'
Jun 15, 2018, 08:25 AM
Registered User
I was in that group and got crushed. That being said what a great vid of an AWESOME field. Im recovered enough to say cant wait till next year. Come on out.............
Jun 15, 2018, 08:43 AM
Registered User
ReidRoberts's Avatar
Great video, Greg! I didn’t go this year because I just get so tired of hotels with my job. But there’s no way I’m missing it with my RMSA brothers next year!


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