If compelled to live by exclusively one commandment,... - RC Groups
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Jan 03, 2018, 04:31 AM
Je Suis Turkana Boy
rcposter's Avatar
Discussion

If compelled to live by exclusively one commandment,...


...and we had to choose between...

Thou shalt not deceive with either exploitative intent or unjust purpose

...or...

All human interaction must be fair

...which should we go with?
Jan 03, 2018, 04:39 AM
Registered User
How about "Thou shall not deceive through untrue thread titles."?
Jan 03, 2018, 04:56 AM
Je Suis Turkana Boy
rcposter's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meathook
How about "Thou shall not deceive through untrue thread titles."?
How is that better than "Thou shalt not deceive with either exploitative intent or unjust purpose?"

And do you not find the hypothetical choice presented in the OP interesting?
Jan 03, 2018, 05:03 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcposter
How is that better than "Thou shalt not deceive with either exploitative intent or unjust purpose?"
Your version feels unwieldy.
Quote:
And do you not find the hypothetical choice presented in the OP interesting?
I wouldn't call it interesting.
Jan 03, 2018, 05:14 AM
Wake up, feel pulse, be happy!
Piece's Avatar
What is the origin of your second commandment?

"Interaction" requires the involvement of at least two people, and "fair" is completely subjective, so I don't see how any one person can abide by such a commandment.
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Jan 03, 2018, 09:49 AM
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Windrider53's Avatar
I prefer the wiccan rule, it's simply "Do no harm".
Jan 03, 2018, 09:53 AM
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AA5BY's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcposter
...and we had to choose between...

Thou shalt not deceive with either exploitative intent or unjust purpose

...or...

All human interaction must be fair

...which should we go with?
I'd go with the first ... it is why I left Christianity.
Jan 03, 2018, 10:20 AM
Figure Nine Champ
madsci_guy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Windrider53
I prefer the wiccan rule, it's simply "Do no harm".
Not the exact quote.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiccan_morality

Quote:
Wiccan morality is largely expressed in the Wiccan Rede: 'An' it harm none, do what ye will' - old-fashioned language for 'as long as you aren't harming anyone, do as you wish'. While this could be interpreted to mean "do no harm at all," it is usually interpreted as a declaration of the freedom to act, along with the necessity of thinking through and taking responsibility for the consequences of one's actions.[1]
Jan 03, 2018, 10:29 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcposter
...and we had to choose between...

Thou shalt not deceive with either exploitative intent or unjust purpose

...or...

All human interaction must be fair

...which should we go with?
They are the same commandment.
Jan 03, 2018, 10:38 AM
Registered User
AA5BY's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonny McGhee
They are the same commandment.
And... if fairness is that everyone deceives each other?
Jan 03, 2018, 11:06 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by AA5BY
And... if fairness is that everyone deceives each other?
Here's the way I see the original post:

"Thou shalt not deceive with either exploitative intent or unjust purpose"

This means can we can deceive as long as we can justify it.

...or...

"All human interaction must be fair"

The operative word is 'fair'. As long as we can justify our interactions with other people as being for 'good reason' then, in effect, both commandments say the same thing.
Jan 03, 2018, 11:27 AM
Je Suis Turkana Boy
rcposter's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonny McGhee
Here's the way I see the original post:

"Thou shalt not deceive with either exploitative intent or unjust purpose"

This means can we can deceive as long as we can justify it.

...or...

"All human interaction must be fair"

The operative word is 'fair'. As long as we can justify our interactions with other people as being for 'good reason' then, in effect, both commandments say the same thing.
Harmless magic routines involve deception. Parody often involves deception. That's why I tried to narrow the type of deception being considered.
Jan 03, 2018, 11:31 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcposter
Harmless magic routines involve deception. Parody often involves deception. That's why I tried to narrow the type of deception being considered.
Sorry, I don't understand your reply in the context of the OP. Could you rephrase it?
Jan 03, 2018, 11:32 AM
Je Suis Turkana Boy
rcposter's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonny McGhee
Here's the way I see the original post:

"Thou shalt not deceive with either exploitative intent or unjust purpose"

This means can we can deceive as long as we can justify it.

...or...

"All human interaction must be fair"

The operative word is 'fair'. As long as we can justify our interactions with other people as being for 'good reason' then, in effect, both commandments say the same thing.
And how do we arrive at a consensus (when required) as to what's "fair" while allowing for people's subjectivity? Seems at some point, going with number two eventually relies on number one. Simply relying on number two leads, quite naturally in my view, to requiring number one if "fairness" is to be justly enacted.
Jan 03, 2018, 11:52 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcposter
And how do we arrive at a consensus (when required) as to what's "fair" while allowing for people's subjectivity? Seems at some point, going with number two eventually relies on number one. Simply relying on number two leads, quite naturally in my view, to requiring number one if "fairness" is to be justly enacted.
The problem with the OP is rooted in the words used to set it up.

Unjust in commandment 1, and fair in commandment 2.

Both words are dynamic, subject to the definitions in vogue for any particular group of people at any particular time, relative to any particular problem or interaction.

This is why I think that they are the same commandment; in that they can both be followed regardless of which one is chosen.


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