Why 1.5 meters? - RC Groups
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Dec 31, 2017, 01:20 PM
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Why 1.5 meters?


I see smaller DLG's...apart from the competition class rules, why not make them bigger?
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Dec 31, 2017, 04:23 PM
Team USA F3F Member
ttraver's Avatar
1.5 meters seems to be about right to limit tip strikes on the ground when swinging these things around.

That's one thing anyways.

They also have quite a bit more performance than the 1 meter variants. I don't know if you have done a full throw on a 1 meter, but it actually hurts because of the blood flowing to your hand so fast.

t
Dec 31, 2017, 05:25 PM
plays with toy planes
My totally uninformed opinion is that 1.5M DLGs are machines that are nearly perfectly scaled for the average human body. That is: exploiting how we can move, optimizing the form and mass we can throw, and being real about what are able to see. Javelins, darts, skis, surfboards and skis are scaled just right for us too. It's awesome.
Dec 31, 2017, 06:27 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by theghosttanker
I see smaller DLG's...apart from the competition class rules, why not make them bigger?
No reason I can see. But you have to remember the vast majority of model development and use of the latest & greatest is in competition, so the competition rules will essentially dictate what you can buy.

I see no reason that a 2m DLG wouldn't work fine and it would have the inherent advantage of size over the smaller models. You would have to be careful to not get too heavy to the point that it is physically difficult to throw the larger model, but that shouldn't be a problem for a recreational user considering that competitors sometimes heavily ballast models and still throw many times in a competition. Also, your launch height will suffer with the larger model, but for recreational use that may be no issue as well.


Mark
Jan 01, 2018, 08:27 PM
Registered User
Yeah, I would buy a 2meter dlg and I would think the performance would be noticeably improved.
Jan 01, 2018, 10:35 PM
a.k.a. Matt Nelson
MattN's Avatar
Anybody else remember the Fireworks Xtend? 2m DLG - SoaringUSA had it on their website... I thought about buying one, but figured it was an expensive novelty...

ファイヤーワークスXtendとトンビ (3 min 49 sec)


And then there was this one-off monster from waaaay back....

3 Meter Giant HLG (1 min 34 sec)
Jan 02, 2018, 01:42 AM
1 revolution and throw!
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffmete
Yeah, I would buy a 2meter dlg and I would think the performance would be noticeably improved.
It could fly a little bit better but it will launch much lower.
Jan 02, 2018, 08:07 AM
Registered User
LOL "figured it was an expensive novelty"...uhhhhh aren't ALL DLG's expensive novelties?
It might be interesting to see what would happen if someone sold a DLG with a span that you could pick....each wing say a meter long, and you could cut them to whatever length you wanted before joining them. Along with an overlength fuse that you could cut the boom down to whatever length you wanted.
Jan 02, 2018, 08:39 AM
God Created me to Create
The_Builder's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ttraver
1.5 meters seems to be about right to limit tip strikes on the ground when swinging these things around.

That's one thing anyways.

They also have quite a bit more performance than the 1 meter variants. I don't know if you have done a full throw on a 1 meter, but it actually hurts because of the blood flowing to your hand so fast.

t
That comment is pretty funny given how many people love flying the smaller planes.
Jan 02, 2018, 08:43 AM
God Created me to Create
The_Builder's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by theghosttanker
LOL "figured it was an expensive novelty"...uhhhhh aren't ALL DLG's expensive novelties?
It might be interesting to see what would happen if someone sold a DLG with a span that you could pick....each wing say a meter long, and you could cut them to whatever length you wanted before joining them. Along with an overlength fuse that you could cut the boom down to whatever length you wanted.

It is a rare occasion when something so forthright is posted in here.....

I like your idea but most people wont even join a 2pc wing these days, much less cut the panels down.... The vast majority of DLG pilots wont touch a plane that isn't 75% built for them.
Jan 02, 2018, 09:26 AM
Transplant Chey WY from Reno
Thermaln2's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ttraver
1.5 meters seems to be about right to limit tip strikes on the ground when swinging these things around.

t
The span on DLGs was set a long, long time ago, like over 25 years before DLG was done. DLG had nothing to do with the span chosen.

No one here really gives a darn about why the span was chosen, just that it was. I don't believe that 1.5 M is really the optimum for any sort of HLG/DLG. The original thoughts were you threw any plane ant any span. The "Powers" always intervene because everyone thinks that have to have rules, and those rules have to be governed by the FAI, because, after all they control the rules and rules have to be standardized.

IMHO, we lost out on a lot of experimentation and aerodynamic advances because rules were imposed.

No one thinks out of the box anymore, I mean really out of the box, not just a slight modification what seems to work.

Chris
Last edited by Thermaln2; Jan 02, 2018 at 11:04 AM.
Jan 02, 2018, 09:35 AM
Wayne Wimbish
wdwimbish's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Builder
It is a rare occasion when something so forthright is posted in here.....

I like your idea but most people wont even join a 2pc wing these days, much less cut the panels down.... The vast majority of DLG pilots wont touch a plane that isn't 75% built for them.
Paul,

I think the desire to trade prefabrication for money in order to save time is something that has been prevalent across the spectrum for a long time.

Used to be you could buy a kit and plans for a house from the Sears catalog. We don't see that happening anymore. Some still build houses from plans themselves but that is rare. People don't build cars as a rule, but kit cars are still out there. When I was in scouts I learned how to make my own bow string but never have since.

In the wide world of recreational activities, our niche seems to have found a happy medium in regards to the level of prefabrication that most people are willing to pay for. Sure, there are people out there with more time and less money that are willing to build from the basics. There are others with more money and less time that will pay for ready-to-fly. Most of us out there are in the middle.

The savy marketer has to determine where his gifts and abilities intersect with the market and be content to dwell there without disparaging the rest of the market. You seem to have found your nitch. Relax and enjoy it for what it is.

Wayne
Jan 02, 2018, 11:34 AM
God Created me to Create
The_Builder's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by wdwimbish
Paul,

I think the desire to trade prefabrication for money in order to save time is something that has been prevalent across the spectrum for a long time.

Used to be you could buy a kit and plans for a house from the Sears catalog. We don't see that happening anymore. Some still build houses from plans themselves but that is rare. People don't build cars as a rule, but kit cars are still out there. When I was in scouts I learned how to make my own bow string but never have since.

In the wide world of recreational activities, our niche seems to have found a happy medium in regards to the level of prefabrication that most people are willing to pay for. Sure, there are people out there with more time and less money that are willing to build from the basics. There are others with more money and less time that will pay for ready-to-fly. Most of us out there are in the middle.

The savy marketer has to determine where his gifts and abilities intersect with the market and be content to dwell there without disparaging the rest of the market. You seem to have found your nitch. Relax and enjoy it for what it is.

Wayne

Wayne, you have missed one very important part of this equation. There are those who simply want the end product and those who enjoy the journey. There are still those who build their own bow strings (me included) many of us still tie our own flies, build our own rods and some of us have even had a stab at building fly reels.

Your comparison of houses and cars is way off base because those sectors are heavily regulated. Even so, I have friends who have done both.

Sure there are some people who just do not have time to build but there is an entirely different group who are all about instant gratification. I am not disparaging a group of people I am simply pointing out how the trends of society have influenced this hobby just as it has so many others.

We are getting off topic though so we should let this go.

Chris nailed it though, Competition Rules are why most of the DLGs are 1.5M. If you have no interest in flying F3K you could build any size DLG you want. I build 1M DLGs, 1.3M DLGs, and I am considering a 2M DLG. I am also working on a Polyhedral DLG. But I do not build any planes designed for F3K competitions.
Jan 02, 2018, 12:27 PM
hot air rises...
jfinch's Avatar
Seems odd to me to say competition is the reason DLGs are 1.5 m and at the same breath mention smaller planes. Nothing in the rules exclude a plane with a smaller span than 1.5 m. You could compete at the next F3K contest with a 10" javelin launched plane if you want.

I agree with Tim (and Kristoff).
Jan 02, 2018, 01:13 PM
Transplant Chey WY from Reno
Thermaln2's Avatar
Jon,

The comment that a 2M will launch lower has a bit of tunnel vision in it. The extra .5M probably won't make as much difference as you expect. The added weigh would be relatively insignificant but the AR would give quite a bit more in performance. So I have to really disagree. If HLG/DLG had be allowed to evolve as it was really trending in the day, that is the only limitation being that it had to be hand launched, we might see planes that are quire different than we have today.

As for smaller, one had to look at the intent of the designs, not their performance in comparisons. Often spans and weight are imposed to just get people to compete, and sometimes it is to remove the expense. Obviously that is not the case in our DLGs, but in freeflight contests, look at pennyplanes, EasyB as opposed to the f!ds.


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