If God was watching, why didn't he make the trigger not work? - RC Groups
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Dec 25, 2017, 12:03 AM
Equinsu Ocha
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If God was watching, why didn't he make the trigger not work?


I have heard essentially the same question asked over and over in this forum. "Why would God allow X, Y or Z to happen?" I never had the words to put it as perfectly as the gentleman in this video.

Ravi Zacharias - If God exists, why doesn't He stop rapists from raping? (6 min 20 sec)
Dec 25, 2017, 01:04 AM
AustinTatious
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a non answer, even if the premise is granted. The premise being that god must give free will so that we can love. God intervening by making the trigger not work and having the gunman die instantly of a heart attack doesn't violate anyone's free will. The gunman still pulled the trigger, exercising his free will and thus faces the consequence of his free willed action. God would have simply been preventing the consequences ( for the victim) of that action.

If you tell a kid NOT to touch something and then he/she reaches for it and you grab their hand and keep them from grabbing it... You have not removed their free will, only prevented an action they intended to take with it.

Ill give it to the guy though, what a great politicians answer... totally sucks you in with a non answer that distracts you from the fact that the logic is fallacious. I guess he understands that no one buys the "god is mysterious" position anymore.
Dec 25, 2017, 01:24 AM
Equinsu Ocha
Lightnin's Avatar
I disagree, it is not a non-answer. It is the ultimate gift, choice. To me it sounds like you are speaking of the old covenant. If you read what you wrote it could be argued both ways all day from a completely objective point of view. Also Biblically children are a completely different issue, not a good example.
Dec 25, 2017, 04:01 AM
turn, turn, turn.
Free will is an illusion with regards to belief in God.
Nobody can make themselves believe in God anymore than they can make themselves believe in Santa Claus... nor can they make themselves disbelieve something they already believe.

And my answer to the OP is this:
Everybody gets saved in the end, so what does it matter?
Dec 25, 2017, 04:47 AM
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rockyboy2's Avatar
Uhmmm.............sorry but i got nothing from him .
Dec 25, 2017, 06:31 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Sharp
Free will is an illusion with regards to belief in God.
Nobody can make themselves believe in God anymore than they can make themselves believe in Santa Claus... nor can they make themselves disbelieve something they already believe.

And my answer to the OP is this:
Everybody gets saved in the end, so what does it matter?
Everybody does not get saved Kenny. God wants everyone to be saved but a person must be willing to accept the gift of eternal life.
Dec 25, 2017, 07:11 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Sharp
Free will is an illusion with regards to belief in God.
Nobody can make themselves believe in God anymore than they can make themselves believe in Santa Claus... nor can they make themselves disbelieve something they already believe.

And my answer to the OP is this:
Everybody gets saved in the end, so what does it matter?
I agree with your first part and have often asked believers that same question: how can I actually chose to believe? I canít get there through logic and I have no emotional sense of godís existence. I could say I believe but it would be a fake. And both god and I would know it was fake.
Dec 25, 2017, 07:24 AM
turn, turn, turn.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Shaw
Everybody does not get saved Kenny. God wants everyone to be saved but a person must be willing to accept the gift of eternal life.
A gift does not have to be accepted.
also, Jesus prayed that God's will be done on Earth as it is in heaven... Meaning God's will is done in heaven.
Dec 25, 2017, 07:25 AM
turn, turn, turn.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoda466
I agree with your first part and have often asked believers that same question: how can I actually chose to believe? I canít get there through logic and I have no emotional sense of godís existence. I could say I believe but it would be a fake. And both god and I would know it was fake.
Precisely... And it is not your fault. The Bible is clear that a person cannot believe without being Quickened by the Holy Spirit... and it is a gift.
Dec 25, 2017, 08:51 AM
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AA5BY's Avatar
The question is asked from the Christian perspective of a personal God....and answered from the perspective of a Jew, who's God is impersonal, or less personal.

I agree with those who say the answer was a play on words to rationalize something that is at best... a belief... it being that God is love.

The one certain known to man is that nature exist and that within it, both emotions exist.... love and hate. The human spirit senses one to have beauty and value and the other to be ugly and without virtue. No god belief is required to make those conclusions.... they are universal to both the believer and non believer alike and to all of mankind.

That is why I advocate for believers to stop bullying non believers that they need to believe in a god. While an argument can be made that a cleric aids the process of educating man about consequences of choices between goodness and evilness, many humans are fully capable of grasping those understandings without the cleric and given the corruptions within the cleric community... are better off doing it outside of those corruptions.
Dec 25, 2017, 08:55 AM
AeroDan
God gave man free-will, but from what I understand, man WILL answer for what man does.
Dec 25, 2017, 08:59 AM
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AA5BY's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoda466
I agree with your first part and have often asked believers that same question: how can I actually chose to believe? I canít get there through logic and I have no emotional sense of godís existence. I could say I believe but it would be a fake. And both god and I would know it was fake.
Belief... buys a life coach, where the individual doesn't have to do the work or trust his own abilities to sort the choice of good or evil. The believer has given that task over to a god and his clerics. The believer has sub contracted that task to what he hopes to be a professional that can be trusted.
Dec 25, 2017, 09:34 AM
turn, turn, turn.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bell47G2
God gave man free-will, but from what I understand, man WILL answer for what man does.
Do you think you have free will when God knows everything you will do before you were even born?
Dec 25, 2017, 11:03 AM
Sink stinks
Montag DP's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Sharp
Do you think you have free will when God knows everything you will do before you were even born?
The two are not mutually exclusive. I know the sun will set tonight, but that doesn't mean I caused it to happen.
Dec 25, 2017, 11:26 AM
turn, turn, turn.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Montag DP
The two are not mutually exclusive. I know the sun will set tonight, but that doesn't mean I caused it to happen.
God however did and does cause it to happen, if God set the stars and planets in the universe in motion.

If God knows all the choices we make before God creates us, how are we responsible?... And how is that free will?... And how can we take credit for anything we do?


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