The value of college - RC Groups
Thread Tools
Dec 22, 2017, 05:37 PM
Really?
dll932's Avatar
Discussion

The value of college


https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...od-for/546590/

"The labor market doesn’t pay you for the useless subjects you master; it pays you for the preexisting traits you signal by mastering them. This is not a fringe idea. Michael Spence, Kenneth Arrow, and Joseph Stiglitz—all Nobel laureates in economics—made seminal contributions to the theory of educational signaling. Every college student who does the least work required to get good grades silently endorses the theory. But signaling plays almost no role in public discourse or policy making. As a society, we continue to push ever larger numbers of students into ever higher levels of education. The main effect is not better jobs or greater skill levels, but a credentialist arms race."

Or a bar with a $100K cover charge.
Dec 22, 2017, 06:12 PM
Misfit Multirotor Monkey
Cyberdactyl's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by dll932
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...od-for/546590/

"The labor market doesn’t pay you for the useless subjects you master; it pays you for the preexisting traits you signal by mastering them. This is not a fringe idea. Michael Spence, Kenneth Arrow, and Joseph Stiglitz—all Nobel laureates in economics—made seminal contributions to the theory of educational signaling. Every college student who does the least work required to get good grades silently endorses the theory. But signaling plays almost no role in public discourse or policy making. As a society, we continue to push ever larger numbers of students into ever higher levels of education. The main effect is not better jobs or greater skill levels, but a credentialist arms race."

Or a bar with a $100K cover charge.
The business world has evolved over the last twenty years and is well aware of useless credentials and degrees.

Quote:
"Arum and Roksa cite a study finding that students at one typical college spent 13 hours a week studying, 12 hours “socializing with friends,” 11 hours “using computers for fun,” eight hours working for pay, six hours watching TV, six hours exercising, five hours on “hobbies,” and three hours on “other forms of entertainment.” Grade inflation completes the idyllic package by shielding students from negative feedback. The average GPA is now 3.2."
Even intern applicants with STEM degrees need thorough screening.
Dec 22, 2017, 06:21 PM
Registered User
The media is where the money is at.

Start some dorky U-tube channel and call yourself a media analyst if you must. Sell coffee mugs and T-shirts. Write a book, whatever. Just keep feeding them dorks who are willing to buy into all the BS
Dec 22, 2017, 06:50 PM
Figure Nine Champ
madsci_guy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyberdactyl
Even intern applicants with STEM degrees need thorough screening.
That's always been true.
Dec 22, 2017, 06:53 PM
Super BRO Bro..........Bro.
RaisedByWolves's Avatar
80% of the people coming out of college anymore are no more well equipped for the job market than they were before they went in.
Dec 22, 2017, 07:44 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaisedByWolves
80% of the people coming out of college anymore are no more well equipped for the job market than they were before they went in.
Strange but sort of true unfortunately.

I completed my electrical apprenticeship before heading off to Uni to complete my Bachelor Degree in Electrical Engineering. One of the things I used to keep wondering about during that time was whether or not I was becoming more valuable in my previous position or not. And the answer is/was mostly no. I should add I wasn't doing domestic installation work either, it was in a Power Station covering all the electrical aspects..

If I were to have returned to my employer after 4yrs, I would have pretty much had to pick up where I had left off skill wise.

Sometimes the Uni degree is (was?) a piece of paper that says you're ok at managing your time and responsibilities, and have some idea about the subject matter. I will concede the broader understanding of electrical principles that somebody "should" be getting with higher education does come in handy, but Engineers today are no longer building bridges for the Empire in the remote wilderness, these days Google is your friend..
Dec 22, 2017, 07:55 PM
Super BRO Bro..........Bro.
RaisedByWolves's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjr_93tz
Strange but sort of true unfortunately.

I completed my electrical apprenticeship before heading off to Uni to complete my Bachelor Degree in Electrical Engineering. One of the things I used to keep wondering about during that time was whether or not I was becoming more valuable in my previous position or not. And the answer is/was mostly no. I should add I wasn't doing domestic installation work either, it was in a Power Station covering all the electrical aspects..

If I were to have returned to my employer after 4yrs, I would have pretty much had to pick up where I had left off skill wise.

Sometimes the Uni degree is (was?) a piece of paper that says you're ok at managing your time and responsibilities, and have some idea about the subject matter. I will concede the broader understanding of electrical principles that somebody "should" be getting with higher education does come in handy, but Engineers today are no longer building bridges for the Empire in the remote wilderness, these days Google is your friend..
Yeah. When I think back to all the cr4p I learned in high school.......

Sorry, old song.

When I think about all the time I was told I couldn't use a calculator for math problems I just shake my head. I always wondered why a Boss would make me do something the slowest way possible. Did the teacher think bosses all wanted to punish workers by making them do things the hardest way possible?

Now you can look up calculus equations in minutes.

All that time spent......
Dec 22, 2017, 08:03 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlgjunkyard
the media is where the money is at.

Start some dorky u-tube channel and call yourself a media analyst if you must. Sell coffee mugs and t-shirts. Write a book, whatever. Just keep feeding them dorks who are willing to buy into all the bs
BINGO!!!!!!!!!! You nailed it.
Dec 22, 2017, 09:31 PM
Misfit Multirotor Monkey
Cyberdactyl's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by madsci_guy
That's always been true.
Oh no no no, the Colleges and universities in the last dozen years, most especially, in the last five, has been pumping out a unique, weaponized version of the virtue signaling social justice warrior, yet distressed victim.

All one has to do is follow what has been happening just left of most all liberal art schools, i.e., Evergreen, Berkley, Mizzou, Laurier, etc. And of course add a handful of violent far left professors with bike locks.

It's definitely an evolution in craziness.
Dec 22, 2017, 10:02 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonny McGhee
BINGO!!!!!!!!!! You nailed it.
Could it be any more obvious ..
Dec 23, 2017, 12:42 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaisedByWolves
Yeah. When I think back to all the cr4p I learned in high school.......

Sorry, old song.

When I think about all the time I was told I couldn't use a calculator for math problems I just shake my head. I always wondered why a Boss would make me do something the slowest way possible. Did the teacher think bosses all wanted to punish workers by making them do things the hardest way possible?

Now you can look up calculus equations in minutes.

All that time spent......
The broadness of it is has pluses and a minuses. One of the pluses is that you have more tools in your problem solving toolbox, one of the minus is that you have more tools in your problem solving toolbox

Doing things in your head is slow and inefficient, however it helps develop skills in judgement and estimation. I get the opportunity to be in front of Engineering students from time to time (especially those working in industry and studying part time) and I'm always asking them "Does that value/answer/result look reasonable?"

Students blindly accepting the values presented by all sorts of digital instruments (calculators and auto ranging meters are the worst offenders) is something I encounter. An analogue needle rocketing off the end of it's scale tends to make them look (and think) twice at what they're doing in the lab.

In my current role I have no use for 3/4 of the material we covered at Uni, but I don't regret having to remember about 50% of it on exam day
Dec 23, 2017, 01:52 AM
Figure Nine Champ
madsci_guy's Avatar
I speak as one who has had to filter out the STEM chaff from the grain among the new grads that applied for positions in the companies where I worked, across decades of time.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyberdactyl
Oh no no no, the Colleges and universities in the last dozen years, most especially, in the last five, has been pumping out a unique, weaponized version of the virtue signaling social justice warrior, yet distressed victim.

All one has to do is follow what has been happening just left of most all liberal art schools, i.e., Evergreen, Berkley, Mizzou, Laurier, etc. And of course add a handful of violent far left professors with bike locks.

It's definitely an evolution in craziness.
Dec 23, 2017, 02:16 AM
Sloping off....
leccyflyer's Avatar
Man cannot live by bread alone and STEM studies do not define the total of valuable degree studies.

There are many arts and humanities degrees which produce graduates who will go on and make a valuable contribution to society, utilising the skills that they learned at University. Major employers recognise this and the subject taken to obtain a degree is often nothing to do with the career that the graduate embarks upon -it is the life enhancing learning and being taught how to learn and how to apply oneself that is valuable. The details of the topics being studies are far less important. That isn't a new thing, many of the most influential people in society have degrees in classics and the humanities, rather than in STEM studies. There is room for all.

There is an unpleasant tendency, amongst engineers in particular, which denigrates the value of humanities and arts degrees, projecting a belief that only STEM topics are valuable.
Dec 23, 2017, 05:30 AM
Figure Nine Champ
madsci_guy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by leccyflyer
Man cannot live by bread alone and STEM studies do not define the total of valuable degree studies..
Sure, you can always do something that you love,..... and starve. If you're single that may be an option, but good luck paying off the average $30K student loan and raising a family.

http://time.com/money/4079001/bachel...g-salary-2015/

Quote:
15 Bachelor’s Degrees With the Highest Average Starting Salaries:

Chemical engineering — $63,389
Computer engineering — $63,313
Electrical engineering — $61,173
Software design — $60,104
Mechanical engineering — $59,681
Computer programming — $58,995
Computer science — $56,974
Civil engineering — $55,879
All technical (IT, engineering, computer science) — $55,465
Management information systems — $51,690
Construction — $49,672
Finance — $48,785
Accounting — $47,834
All business — $47,459
Supply chain — $47,147
https://www.forbes.com/forbes/welcom...ww.google.com/

Quote:
College Degrees With the Highest (And Lowest) Starting Salaries In 2017

On the Low End…

Degree & Average Starting Salary
History - $38,361
English - $38,303
Psychology - $38,079
Special education - $38,002
Elementary education - $37,803
Anthropology/sociology - $37,672
Social work - $37,115
Pre-K & kindergarten education - $35,626
Dec 23, 2017, 05:33 AM
Figure Nine Champ
madsci_guy's Avatar
PS, my dentist is still paying off her debt, and she owns her own practice.


Quick Reply
Message:

Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Discussion One college professor shoots another college professor RCWorks Life, The Universe, and Politics 23 Sep 15, 2015 02:03 PM
Discussion The dubious value of college these days dll932 Life, The Universe, and Politics 15 Oct 03, 2014 07:29 PM
Rant Books titled "College Algebra" and "Algebra for College students" 7oneWo1f Life, The Universe, and Politics 74 Sep 01, 2012 12:24 AM
Discussion New XAircraft X650 Value-4 Value-8 QuadCopter infmetry Multirotor Drone Talk 0 Jul 14, 2011 01:45 AM
Discussion the "family values" party's "family values" candidate ! peterp1964 Life, The Universe, and Politics 50 Oct 13, 2010 12:23 AM