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Dec 18, 2017, 10:23 AM
E-flyer since 1981
Michael in Toronto's Avatar
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Another Jerusalem thread - support from Saudis?


I know there have been reports of covert contact and cooperation between Saudi Arabia and Israel, but today, this surprised me:

http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Sau...rusalem-518372

A Saudi academic has voiced backing for US President Donald Trump’s recognition of Jerusalem as Israel’s capital and called on Arabs to recognize the city’s sanctity to Jews. Abdulhameed Hakeem, head of the Middle East Center for Strategic and Legal Studies in Jedda, told US-based Alhurra television on Saturday that Trump’s move, which touched off protests across the Muslim world from Tunisia to Indonesia, constitutes a “positive shock” to the peace process. Hakeem added: “We as Arabs must come to an understanding with the other party and know what its demands are, so that we can succeed in peace negotiation efforts, so that negotiations not be futile. We must recognize and realize that Jerusalem is a religious symbol to Jews and sacred to them, as Mecca and Medina is to Muslims.”

As far as the previous thread that was locked, I'm willing to continue the discussion. All RCGroups members are invited to join a discussion about Jerusalem, if they so wish, but please be aware that I will not be defending against the notions of whether or not Jerusalem should be recognized as the capital of Israel, or why people hate Jews.

I recognize the obvious:

1. There are people who hate Jews, no matter what Jews do. I believe they do not hate them because of reasons, but seek out reasons because they hate them. It's just the way it is. Some people hate Jews, and there's just not a whole lot I can do about it.

2. Jerusalem is the capital of Israel. Whether it is recognized by other nations or not, whether it is based on history or religion, whether it is contested or not, it just is. It has never been the capital of anything other than a Jewish state. That's just the way it is.

I believe, based on cryptic messages from the Trump administration ( Nicky Halley: "just wait, you'll see"), that there will be a price for Israel to pay. And I believe the US recognition will in fact be a new start for real peace negotiations, but I predict 2 things: 1. Huge concessions will be asked of Israel, and 2: the peace deal will fail because it will be rejected by the Palestinians.

**********

I stayed away from LTUP for 2 days, and it was wonderful.
Dec 18, 2017, 10:27 AM
Figure Nine Champ
madsci_guy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael in Toronto
I believe, based on cryptic messages from the Trump administration ( Nicky Halley: "just wait, you'll see"), that there will be a price for Israel to pay. The US recognition will in fact be a new start for real peace negotiations, but I predict 2 things: 1. Huge concessions will be asked of Israel, and 2: the peace deal will fail because it will be rejected by the Palestinians.
Probably accurate.

1. The nations militarily supporting the Palestinians don't want peace with Israel.
2. Hamas doesn't want peace with Israel.
Dec 18, 2017, 12:29 PM
Flower of Scotland
Dusty1000's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael in Toronto
I know there have been reports of covert contact and cooperation between Saudi Arabia and Israel, but today, this surprised me:

http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Sau...rusalem-518372

A Saudi academic has voiced backing for US President Donald Trump’s recognition of Jerusalem as Israel’s capital and....
Given:

1) there is no political dissent in the Wahhabi Police State, therefore no "academic" would make any such public statement that the dictatorship did not want him to make, and
2) the US-supported regime has been cooperating with Israel for many years now,

...can you explain why this statement surprised you?

Quote:
I predict 2 things: 1. Huge concessions will be asked of Israel
Such as?

I don't believe that Israel will be asked to do more than end the occupation.

I believe it will be the Palestinians that are asked to make huge concessions, such as ceding land that Israel occupies to Israel.
Dec 18, 2017, 01:10 PM
E-flyer since 1981
Michael in Toronto's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dusty1000
Given:

1) there is no political dissent in the Wahhabi Police State, therefore no "academic" would make any such public statement that the dictatorship did not want him to make, and
2) the US-supported regime has been cooperating with Israel for many years now,

...can you explain why this statement surprised you?

Such as?

I don't believe that Israel will be asked to do more than end the occupation.

I believe it will be the Palestinians that are asked to make huge concessions, such as ceding land that Israel occupies to Israel.
I agree that such a statement wouldn't be issued unless it was officially condoned. I still believe it is a bold statement coming from Saudi Arabia. As far as who supports what regime goes, that's just how the world is, and being supported is not unique to Saudi Arabia (example: the Syrian regime is supported by Iran and Russia.).

I also see the Palestinians being asked to make significant concessions, but I'm not really sure what the Palestinian consensus is regarding a formal position or proposition for a peace deal. Not only does the Palestinian Authority lack clarity, but their position differs from Hamas, and you (and I) have clearly pointed out in previous threads, even Hamas (wings) issues conflicting statements and positions.

I see your beliefs as rational and logical, just as I see mine, but I find no merit in arguing about which one of us will be correct in our predictions.

However, you can if you want.
Old Dec 18, 2017, 01:53 PM
cmulder
A moderator felt this post violated the following rule: Offensive Content (Violent). It is temporarily hidden while cmulder edits it.
Dec 18, 2017, 02:06 PM
Wabi-Sabi
coriolan's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmulder
Jews are NOT a race they ARE a RELIGION.
Performing some ritual does not change your ancestry and genetics.
You can convert to become JEW but you can not convert to Hebrew (or any other race)
Infant mutilation does not change that.

Having "imaginary friends" and other signs of delusions show you have "issues" (better known as being "crazy")

Many of the people who CHOOSE TO BE JEW act in ways that make people hate them.
Weinstein is just one example of many (and yes there where good nazi too like Rommel if you want to go the "bad apple" route)

JEWS must start BEHAVING and only then people might start to hate them less..

Until that time they should keep in mind its really easy to make the next batch of zyklon b.
Quote:
After World War II ended in 1945, Bruno Tesch and Karl Weinbacher of Tesch & Stabenow were tried in a British military court and executed for knowingly providing Zyklon B to the SS for use on humans.[46] Gerhard Peters, who served as principal operating officer of Degesch and Heli and also held posts in the Nazi government, served two years eight months in prison as an accessory before being released due to amendments to the penal code.[47]

Use of hydrogen cyanide as a pesticide or cleaner has been banned or restricted in some countries.[48] Most hydrogen cyanide is used in industrial processes, made by companies in Germany, Japan, the Netherlands and the US.[49][50] Degesch resumed production of Zyklon B after the war. The product was sold as Cyanosil in Germany and Zyklon in other countries. It was still produced as of 2000.[51] Degussa sold Degesch to Detia-Freyberg GmbH in 1986. The company is now called Detia-Degesch.[52] A fumigation product similar to Zyklon B is also in production by Lučební závody Draslovka of the Czech Republic, under the trade name Uragan D2. Uragan means "hurricane" or "cyclone" in Czech.[53
It`s still being produced under a different name!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zyklon_B
Dec 18, 2017, 02:15 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael in Toronto

1. There are people who hate Jews, no matter what Jews do. I believe they do not hate them because of reasons, but seek out reasons because they hate them. It's just the way it is. Some people hate Jews, and there's just not a whole lot I can do about it.
That's an interesting observation. You are saying people don't hate Jews for a reason? I'm betting if you asked someone who hated Jews why they did so, you would get a reason from them.

How many people have you asked this question? I'll bet none.
Dec 18, 2017, 02:17 PM
Registered User

love there slogan


http://detia-degesch.de/articles.php?lang=en&hid=3
Dec 18, 2017, 02:27 PM
E-flyer since 1981
Michael in Toronto's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmulder

JEWS must start BEHAVING and only then people might start to hate them less..
You are nothing but an antisemite to tell me to behave, on the basis of my religion.

You have no idea who I am nor how I behave, so for you to make a blanket statement like that about all Jews, is pure prejudice, which makes you no better than a Nazi. All Nazis are bad.

You act (communicate) in a way that makes me inclined to hate you, specifically. Not all people of your race, and not all people of your religion.

See the difference?
Last edited by Michael in Toronto; Dec 18, 2017 at 02:35 PM.
Dec 18, 2017, 02:30 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael in Toronto
You are nothing but an antisemite to tell me to behave.

You have no idea who I am nor how I behave, so for you to make a blanket statement like that about all Jews, is pure prejudice, which makes you no better than a Nazi. All Nazis are bad.

You act (communicate) in a way that makes me inclined to hate you, specifically. Not all people of your race, and not all people of your religion.

See the difference, Nazi?
I could be wrong, but I think that post is against forum rules.
Dec 18, 2017, 02:30 PM
E-flyer since 1981
Michael in Toronto's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonny McGhee
That's an interesting observation. You are saying people don't hate Jews for a reason? I'm betting if you asked someone who hated Jews why they did so, you would get a reason from them.

How many people have you asked this question? I'll bet none.
1. Obviously, you misunderstood my post.

2. I'll happily respond directly to the content of your posts, after you demonstrate that you will answer my questions, and respond when requested. Your past behaviour towards me warrants no courtesy nor respect from me.
Dec 18, 2017, 02:33 PM
E-flyer since 1981
Michael in Toronto's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonny McGhee
I could be wrong, but I think that post is against forum rules.
You haven't objected to his post.

If you agree with him that Rommel was a good Nazi, and that Jews need to learn to behave, and you feel that those sentiments are acceptable to not only LTUP , but to you yourself, then go ahead and report me, if that would be meaningful to you.

It appears that you don't share my sense of decency, nor find his statements offensive.
Dec 18, 2017, 02:35 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael in Toronto
You haven't objected to his post.

If you agree with him that Rommel was a good Nazi, and that Jews need to learn to behave, and you feel that those sentiments are acceptable to not only LTUP , but to you yourself, then go ahead and report me, if that would be meaningful to you.

It appears that you don't share my sense of decency, nor find his statements offensive.
I have no plans to, nor did I. Was just giving you a heads up.
Dec 18, 2017, 02:35 PM
Love & a Molotov cocktail
Punkie's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmulder
Jews are NOT a race they ARE a RELIGION.
Performing some ritual does not change your ancestry and genetics.
You can convert to become JEW but you can not convert to Hebrew (or any other race)
Infant mutilation does not change that.

Having "imaginary friends" and other signs of delusions show you have "issues" (better known as being "crazy")

Many of the people who CHOOSE TO BE JEW act in ways that make people hate them.
Weinstein is just one example of many (and yes there where good nazi too like Rommel if you want to go the "bad apple" route)

JEWS must start BEHAVING and only then people might start to hate them less..

Until that time they should keep in mind its really easy to make the next batch of zyklon b.
Sorry mate, but that is bollox, I know enough Jews to know that is bollox.
The state of Israel may act like a rogue state in its treatment of the Palestinians, but that has all to do with Jews as a group acting in any particular way.

To be honest your post is offensive to the extreme and is comparable to a comment made to me in a pub that led to one of the few occasions I threatened someone with violence for just opening their gobs.
Dec 18, 2017, 02:36 PM
Registered User
My religion? seriously?
You assume all people are delusional?
There are people who stick with FACTS and there is no PROOF of a HIGHER BEING, (aka god)


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