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Nov 12, 2017, 02:11 PM
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Thread OP
Discussion

AerobTec Altis v4+ Questions F5J & ALES


I’d like to hear from folks who fly both ALES & F5J using same model/limiter. If I am interpreting the user manual correctly, it leads me to think this unit might be a 1-device limiter solution vs. a separate ALES limiter & F5J limiter? It appears to be configurable for F5J (FAI rules) or ALES (30 secs or defined altitude cut-off). There are also several preset competition formats (F5J, ALES150, ALES200) from which user can select.

Some questions:

- Can the Altis v4 Keypad (alone) be used to re-program back & forth between an F5J setup & ALES setup in the field without PC loaded with Altis software?

- Is the Device Terminal necessary for this, or that’s more a data retrieval do-dad?

- It appears I can plug in its telemetry lead into my (happens to be Jeti EXT) RX port. Hopefully when they say compatible that means the TX automatically recognizes this device like a Jeti altimeter or vario device?

- But (correct me if I’m wrong) I think in ALES its ok to have altitude feedback on TX dashboard whereas F5J it is not allowed, only voltage/temp.. other parameters. So would I just unplug the telemetry lead in F5J mode & everything else can stay put in the same model?

- I cant find the link but I got the impression there was an (N-Am) F5J introduction/provisional 'guideline' that said it was ok to have bailout throttle. Likely with a score implication, but I didn't get that far. Anyway, is the Altis capable of also programming this feature in? What would the display read when this occurred?

- When it comes to throttle TX min/max settings, anything specific to know brand wise (selfishly asking about Jeti)? In their Q&A is says My Altis v4+ measures F5J height even if do not start the motor. After power on, the F5J height is discarded. This might be caused by too high zero throttle level. In such case Altis v4+ considers the signal to correspond to switched on motor. Please check the zero throttle level in your radio system. It must be set bellow 1200μs. Best practise is to use throttle output in range 1000μs to 2000μs.
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Nov 12, 2017, 02:40 PM
solastagia
kcaldwel's Avatar
You can set up F5J "lite" with the keypad from ALES settings. The F5J rules require a separate firmware be loaded that does not allow re-starts. You can not load the real F5J firmware without a computer to my knowledge. If the F5J firmware is loaded, you cannot change it back to ALES settings with the keypad. If you have F5J "lite" settings with the regular firmware, you can change them to ALES settings.

You need the appropriate Aerobtec telemetry converter to allow the Altis to talk to your Tx/Rx telemetry system. It is a small add-on between the Altis and the Rx.

A vario/altimeter is legal for ALES, but not for F5J. You can put your Taranis in FAI mode, and it will then not display and telemetry except battery voltage.

Many clubs in the US run some form of F5J "lite", where they allow motor re-starts, with a zero for the flight. That is not allowed in the F5J rules. It is usually specified in the meet rules.

Kevin
Nov 12, 2017, 03:02 PM
Registered User
Thread OP
Thanks Kevin. Now I see the telemetry port is a Molex & they sell a Molex lead. Alll good.
Nov 12, 2017, 04:20 PM
Registered User
Kevin said it. You can enable "F5J" mode but not the official F5J firmware that must be loaded in an FAI event.

I don't think anyone in the states is requiring the official 5J firmware just yet. But I imagine depending on what gets decided for TS that may change as some of the events will probably be run to the FAI rule book.
Nov 12, 2017, 06:27 PM
solastagia
kcaldwel's Avatar
I should just add that it isn't a limitation of the Altis 4 that you can't change any of the settings with the F5J firmware loaded, or change out of the F5J firmware with the keypad. Those are F5J requirements to ensure that the device is set-up to conform to the F5J rules, and that it can be easily checked to be running in the F5J certified mode.

Kevin
Nov 13, 2017, 10:21 AM
NorCal Electric Soaring (NES)
SoaringDude's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bmwjoon
...I don't think anyone in the states is requiring the official 5J firmware just yet. But I imagine depending on what gets decided for TS that may change as some of the events will probably be run to the FAI rule book.
F5J USA Tour events already run to full FAI rules with only 1 exception: you can use an emergency motor restart in exchange for a zero flight. No plans yet to change this or to require F5J-only firmware. The Team Select event in 2018 is a different matter and will be decided and announced when the time comes.

Thanks,
Chris
www.f5j-usa.com
Nov 13, 2017, 12:23 PM
Registered User
Thread OP
So I take it for USA Tour you do something like select F5J preset, but enable motor on option via the PC interface? And if you were to enter FAI F5J competition/trials you would have this feature turned off? So aside from what features can/cannot be programmed with the mini keypad, sounds like the hardware device itself is a single solution for any of these 3 contest classes: ALES, F5J & F5J (USA tour, Lite, whatever the proper name is for the N-Am exposure event).

There are also several preset competition formats (F5J, ALES150, ALES200) from which user can select.
At the bottom of the Competition Settings tab there are Safety and Training settings. Allow Emergency
Motor On has the following function:
In some competitions it is not allowed to switch the motor on again during the flight. However, you may
want to have the ability to switch the motor on again in an emergency situation. The user can choose to
enable this or not. If enabled, when the motor is switched on for an emergency the Altis v4+ restarts the
recorded F5J height and it is recorded so it can be shown on the flight graph.
Nov 13, 2017, 01:11 PM
NorCal Electric Soaring (NES)
SoaringDude's Avatar
Yes the Altis will support ALES and any US F5J variant without the need to load the special F5J FAI firmware. From the Competition tab in the Altis Flight Manager you can select the Competition type as "F5J". From there you can use the keypad to enable the Altitude Switch for ALES. Just don't forget to disable it when you fly F5J again
Nov 13, 2017, 03:49 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoaringDude
F5J USA Tour events already run to full FAI rules with only 1 exception: you can use an emergency motor restart in exchange for a zero flight. No plans yet to change this or to require F5J-only firmware. The Team Select event in 2018 is a different matter and will be decided and announced when the time comes.

Thanks,
Chris
www.f5j-usa.com
Thanks Chris for the input. I assume the idea of restarts will be have to be re-addressed as time goes on. Personally I'm for them but if I can't I'm 100% okay with that too.
Last edited by Bmwjoon; Nov 13, 2017 at 04:45 PM.
Nov 13, 2017, 04:37 PM
E sailplane thermal hack
I'm for having restarts, except for maybe the BIG events
Nov 15, 2017, 12:59 AM
VHO
VHO
glider misguider
I'm told that the "Big Euro" contests check for firmware version 5.5 during the contest. Can be embarrassing if not loaded.

V 5.5 doesn't allow restart (or output from Tx) .

Firmware version 2.1 does allow all the things you want for training (restarts, Tx output of F5J height, even height limitation such as used in ALES etc), but when you play F5J seriously the firmware needs to be 5.5 (or later if you read this sometime in the future).
Nov 15, 2017, 12:29 PM
Registered User
Thread OP
Thanks for screen grabs RotorCycle. I ordered one & looking forward to installing. Seems feature rich.

VHO, just to clarify you comment: you are saying for an 'official' FAI/F5J event, expect a likely requirement for latest (v5.5) firmware which more strictly enforces (restart/TX output) F5J rules. So if my Altis arrives with latest (v5.5) or if I subsequently upgrade to this at some point on my own....
- is there still a workaround to configure for USA Tour, or that is no longer possible v5.5 onward?
- assume I can still configure for ALES because those are completely different menu configurations to F5J?
Nov 15, 2017, 12:37 PM
NorCal Electric Soaring (NES)
SoaringDude's Avatar
@ptxman, sorry this is confusing. There are 2 different firmwares that you can install on your Altis: one that supports everything (that's the one you will use) and one that only supports FAI F5J.--do not install that one. You will only need the F5J-only firmware if a specific contest requires it.
Nov 15, 2017, 02:52 PM
Genoma² Paris, Fr
In F5J, the only firmware allowed is the one that is forF5J only (no possible modifications ).

So for F5J competition, use this only one. No others allowed!

And for training, do what you want!

Marc


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