Custom TC-R260 flight time question. - RC Groups
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Nov 09, 2017, 02:09 PM
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Question

Custom TC-R260 flight time question.


Heyo guys. I would really appreciate some help regarding my first custom drone which will be a 260 mm drone.

I want to build it so it has a flight time of 15 minutes (calm flying, not racing), however I am unsure if I will be able to.

I have gathered a list of parts so far and I just want to knowmif itmisnpossible to achieve a flightntime of 15 minutes with the parts I have so far.

Frame: https://www.banggood.com/TC-R180-TC-...r_warehouse=CN (Tc-r260 version)

Motors: https://www.banggood.com/4X-Racersta...r_warehouse=CN (I will use 6045 props)

PDB: https://www.banggood.com/Realacc-HUB...r_warehouse=CN

ESC: https://www.banggood.com/4X-Racersta...r_warehouse=CN


Fc: https://www.banggood.com/Upgrade-NAZ...r_warehouse=CN (6dof version)

I will be installing a 25 to 200 mw VTX as well but I havent decided on any one yet.

The batterynInwillmuse will be a 4 s battery. A minimum of 1800mah and a maximum of 3300mah (probably 1 of each)

What could my flight times be with this drone setup?
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Nov 10, 2017, 01:28 AM
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Edit: I will be using these motors and esc's instead.

https://www.banggood.com/4X-Racersta...r_warehouse=CN

https://www.banggood.com/4X-Racersta...r_warehouse=CN
Nov 12, 2017, 01:09 PM
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Is the forum dead, slow, or do thempeople here really just dont knownhow to answer my question? The same is happening on quadcopter forums
Nov 12, 2017, 07:11 PM
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If flight time has top priority you‘d better go with large props and low KV motors.
Nov 13, 2017, 06:33 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woga65
If flight time has top priority you‘d better go with large props and low KV motors.
The largest props I can use on the 250 body is 6 inch props. The low kv motors all seem to require 8 inch props and above. I just want to know if the motors I ordered (1806 2280kv) will give me a flight time of atleast 10 minutes with 6040 props and a 2s 25c 3300 mah battery. The drone's total weight will be about 465 grams if I count up all the components' weight... If I use a lipo calculator it says I can reach 13 minutes flight time, but how accurate are those calculators?
Nov 14, 2017, 03:41 PM
Registered User
465g / 2s 3300mAh / 13 min. seems to realistic in my eyes.

Just to make clear why i recommended bigger props (and frame) and low KV: My latest build is about the same weight, 453g to 525g depending on used LiPo, and flies 18 to 19 minutes using 2s 950mAh. Im using 17in custom props and t-motor 4004-300KV.

If you like to check the results of your lipo calculator you might visit https://www.ecalc.ch/index.htm

As long as you do not use very special parts ECalc will always give realistic results. It‘s very reliable.
Nov 14, 2017, 04:21 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woga65
465g / 2s 3300mAh / 13 min. seems to realistic in my eyes.

Just to make clear why i recommended bigger props (and frame) and low KV: My latest build is about the same weight, 453g to 525g depending on used LiPo, and flies 18 to 19 minutes using 2s 950mAh. Im using 17in custom props and t-motor 4004-300KV.

If you like to check the results of your lipo calculator you might visit https://www.ecalc.ch/index.htm

As long as you do not use very special parts ECalc will always give realistic results. It‘s very reliable.
Oh heavens, I tried ecalc on my tablet and all it managed to do is frustrate and infuriate me... maybe it will be better on my pc, so I will try it again soon.

I changed some of my parts and my drone will have a weight of about a few grams under 400. 1806 motors at 2280kv, 6030 props, 8 amp esc's and a 3300mah battery. the 400 grams is with everything included in it's build: the 260 body, motors, camera, servo, gps, battery and all. I am getting the lightest parts I cam possibly get. I will not be flying it farther than 300 meters so I got a small receiver too. sacrificed some power with the 6030 props to gain some efficiency, but by heavens I'm excited...

Your build flies that long with JUST a 950 battery??? Good heavens.... what frame did you use? all the frames I find online weigh 300 grams for JUST the frame, and then they are 450 sized frames (With all the electronics I looked at, it always gave me a weight of over 700 grams), that's why I went with a racer frame instead, Specifically one that could take 6 inch props... O_O

Edit: Ecalc is just as infuriating as before. I can not choose any of the parts I have, or it just doesn't list the parts I have. I'm definitely not going to pay for a service like that either, no matter how cheap it is either. It's rather pathetic actually, making money just by offering a calculator :/
Last edited by Umbra; Nov 14, 2017 at 04:37 PM.
Nov 14, 2017, 05:41 PM
Registered User
eCalc (free demo) gave me

13.5 mins hovering
8.9 mins normal flight
4.1 mins full speed

using followig input:

Lumenier RX1806 2300KV
GWS 6“ x 4“ (2 blades)
2s 2200mAh
400g 250 sized quad
Nov 14, 2017, 05:45 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Umbra
Your build flies that long with JUST a 950 battery??? Good heavens.... what frame did you use? all the frames I find online weigh 300 grams for JUST the frame, and then they are 450 sized frames (With all the electronics I looked at, it always gave me a weight of over 700 grams), that's why I went with a racer frame instead, Specifically one that could take 6 inch props... O_O
Frame is just carbon tubes and 3D printed center. It‘s this build:
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...postcount=9227
Last edited by Woga65; Nov 14, 2017 at 05:56 PM.
Nov 14, 2017, 05:51 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woga65
Frame is just carbon tubes an 3D printed center. It‘s this build:
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...postcount=9227
Great heavens... I'ma try that next for sure, lol
Nov 14, 2017, 05:57 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woga65
eCalc (free demo) gave me

13.5 mins hovering
8.9 mins normal flight
4.1 mins full speed

using followig input:

Lumenier RX1806 2300KV
GWS 6“ x 4“ (2 blades)
2s 2200mAh
400g 250 sized quad
Eh, I'm not too dissapointed by 8 minutes. I'm specifically going to use DXW D1806 2280 motors with a maximum current of 6 amps on the props and voltage I'm going to run it at. Another calculator I used ( http://multicopter.forestblue.nl/lip...alculator.html ) Says I can expect 12 minutes of slow flying under 46 percent load (Which I interpret as throttle) and a 3300mah battery. Then again, I will take your word and just accept the 8 minutes and be thankful if I get more.

Edit: If I input the 2200mah battery, I also get about 8 minutes on the calculator I just sent you the link of... rather fascinating...

I got another question though... How can I lighten my build even more? Perhaps I can replace the 130 gram 250 frame with something lighter that I made myself? or perhaps I can drill a few holes into the frame beforehand?
Nov 14, 2017, 07:25 PM
Registered User
130g isn‘t that bad. I guess most stock frames will not be lighter. In general tubular frames are more stable than rectangular or flat frames of the same weight.

An easy way to save some grams is to replace all steel screws by alloy screws. Also you could remove all plugs and solder the connections. You should keep wires as short as possible too.

I shortly bought this wooden light weight frame but did not have the time to make a build of it yet.
https://www.amazon.de/Quadcopter-KIT.../dp/B015Y0CR5G
Nov 14, 2017, 07:51 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woga65
130g isn‘t that bad. I guess most stock frames will not be lighter. In general tubular frames are more stable than rectangular or flat frames of the same weight.

An easy way to save some grams is to replace all steel screws by alloy screws. Also you could remove all plugs and solder the connections. You should keep wires as short as possible too.

I shortly bought this wooden light weight frame but did not have the time to make a build of it yet.
https://www.amazon.de/Quadcopter-KIT.../dp/B015Y0CR5G
Oh wow, that is light 0_0 so wood is something I can actually use in builds? Cos carbon fiber rods are rather rare over here. Would wooden rods be alright for a future build of a 450mm?
Nov 14, 2017, 08:51 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Umbra
Oh wow, that is light 0_0 so wood is something I can actually use in builds? Cos carbon fiber rods are rather rare over here. Would wooden rods be alright for a future build of a 450mm?
Wood is a very nice material to build nearly everything, even bicycles, but simply use a wooden rod as arm for a copter will be too heavy and/or instable. In the old day model crafters made really everything out of wood but they nedded to have lots of time and patience and these guys were very skilled.

If you have a close look at the frame i bought you will notice that the parts are put together in a „special“ way so they support each other so they can take forces from different direction.

Stabillity is alway a matter of balance between geometry, weight and material.

For example you can gain robustness by making things more massive but you can also go the other way around and make things lighter to keep the forces low while accelerating or crashing.

Example: You can easyly break a cheap pen with your hands and you cannot simply do the same with an old iPhone 4. But if you drop both the pen and the iPhone 4 down to the street the pen will remain intact and the iPhone will be broken. It is just physics and a little mathematics. The basic formula of mechanics is F = m * a.

Most of the time we stuck in compromises. We need a copter for a certain purpose therfore it needs to have a given size and has to carry a given weight so everything we can do is look for supe stable, super light and super expensive materials like carbon.
Nov 15, 2017, 09:02 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woga65
Wood is a very nice material to build nearly everything, even bicycles, but simply use a wooden rod as arm for a copter will be too heavy and/or instable. In the old day model crafters made really everything out of wood but they nedded to have lots of time and patience and these guys were very skilled.

If you have a close look at the frame i bought you will notice that the parts are put together in a „special“ way so they support each other so they can take forces from different direction.

Stabillity is alway a matter of balance between geometry, weight and material.

For example you can gain robustness by making things more massive but you can also go the other way around and make things lighter to keep the forces low while accelerating or crashing.

Example: You can easyly break a cheap pen with your hands and you cannot simply do the same with an old iPhone 4. But if you drop both the pen and the iPhone 4 down to the street the pen will remain intact and the iPhone will be broken. It is just physics and a little mathematics. The basic formula of mechanics is F = m * a.

Most of the time we stuck in compromises. We need a copter for a certain purpose therfore it needs to have a given size and has to carry a given weight so everything we can do is look for supe stable, super light and super expensive materials like carbon.
Ah, I see... shucks... so, here is my last question. For a future project, what material would you reccomend for me that is the lightest? Carbon fiber, plastic or wood? Something that is stable yet light becauze wood kinda intimidates me now

By the way, thank you so much for your help and opinions so far!