Eachine 1104 6000Kv Lizard motors (rewind). - RC Groups
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Nov 08, 2017, 04:53 AM
Brisbane, Australia
Mini-HowTo

Eachine 1104 6000Kv Lizard motors (rewind).


Some info and a look inside the Lizard motor - these motors are available as a spare part from Banggood and appear to be reasonably good value for money. Because the Lizard 95 quad they come standard with was (and still is) reported to be quite fast using the specified 3S battery, I bought some to try out with a light LOS quad frame and 2S battery.

I measured the Kv of 4 motors which gave values of 5525, 5565, 5570, and 5635, the average being 5570. Somewhat lower than the claimed Kv of 6000 but they performed well on 2S on my quad. The KV numbers are quite close together too which is a good sign.

These motors have curved magnets (which feel stronger than on other motors I've had apart), appear well built, the shaft is a slightly firmer fit in the bearings than other similar motors I have disassembled, the motors run smooth and quiet, so overall it seems a nice motor to work with. It is a little bit heavier than other similar size motors at ~5.95gm, in comparison a DYS 1104 5400Kv motor weighs ~5.4gm. This would add about 2.2gm weight to the quad, not insignificant, but if the motors perform well enough, it might be OK.

Something else I like about them is the stators have thin hammerheads which allows a fair bit more copper wire to be wound on them. This could be a good advantage when rewinding them. The stators measure 5.2mm high and 11.08mm diameter (as best as I can measure). It looks like 26 laminations 0.2mm thick. (Edit: I can see from a pic in post 4 that it has 25 laminations.)

The original winding is with 8 turns of 2 strands of 0.2mm wire, wye terminated, every tooth on all 5 motors had exactly 8 turns which was nice (other motors miss a turn occasionally).

First I disassembled one motor to have a look inside and rewound the stator with a test wind of 6 turns using 0.4mm wire, the bell was refitted and the Kv was measured to be 7480. 6T (T=turns) of 0.4mm wire fits nicely. I removed the 6T 0.4mm windings from the stator to try 5T windings, I tried one tooth with 5T 0.5mm and removed it. 5T 0.5mm won't fit, so then I tried 0.45mm wire. 0.45mm 5T fits nicely, 4 turns on the inner layer and one turn on top. I was surprised that I could fit this much wire on the stator, it is around a 58% increase in the amount of copper on the stator, compared to the original winding, if my maths is right. I made up this approximate table for turn numbers and Kv for this motor:

4T = 11000
5T = 9000 0.45mm wire fits well
6T = 7500 0.4mm wire fits well
7T = 6400
8T = 5600

I decided to rewind all 5 motors with 5 turns for 9000Kv. 7500Kv would be more appropriate for my pilot skills, but Dave gave good feedback on the DYS1104 9000Kv motors I rewound previously, so I am curious to see how these will perform. All stators have been rewound, and one of the 5 motors is 95% assembled. I'm hoping to reassemble them all this weekend.
Last edited by Ian444; Nov 18, 2017 at 01:25 AM. Reason: Corrected laminations number.
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Nov 17, 2017, 07:59 AM
Laughs at un-boxing videos...
basicguy's Avatar
Hard to get an idea of the scale. I have rewound 8 gram motors before. What size prop do you intend on running . What is the current draw?
Nov 18, 2017, 12:58 AM
Brisbane, Australia
These are 6gm motors, not much smaller than 8gm. The stator is 11mm diameter, 5mm high. That is a white pen in behind the stators in the last 2 pics above. I should have put a ruler in there. Props will be 2.5" with 3.5" pitch. Current draw would be around 8A max I'm guessing. I have some more pics, the motors are flying now, I'll post them up shortly.
Nov 18, 2017, 01:14 AM
Brisbane, Australia
The motors turned out well, they run smooth and quiet with good power. It was interesting that I was able to compare them to the DYS 1104 9000Kv motors I rewound some time ago. The Lizard motors have stronger curved magnets and the thin hammerheads allowing much thicker wire, but in flight, if anything, the DYS 1104 motors seem to have a slight edge in performance, and seem to run a fraction cooler too.

The Kv was measured to be 9080, 9000, 9010 and 8940. I've been using a battery hand drill to measure Kv, and although it is convenient and gives ball park figures that are close enough, I'm thinking of setting up some sort of constant speed drive. I'm thinking that another brushless motor driven by a BLHeli esc (with pre-BLHeli_S firmware) in closed loop mode might be good enough. This would also enable higher rpm which will also increase the accuracy and repeatability of the Kv measurement (I hope ).
Nov 21, 2017, 06:28 AM
Test Pilot
teracis's Avatar
Great work Ian!

All of these posts from you really make me want to buy some ultra cheap motors just to re-wind but I have so many things to put together already and a bunch of burnt 2206 motors still not rewound due to disassembly issues! Eventually I'll get there but until then I'll keep looking at your awesome re-winds for inspiration.
Nov 21, 2017, 06:10 PM
Jack
jackerbes's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by teracis
Great work Ian!

All of these posts from you really make me want to buy some ultra cheap motors just to re-wind but I have so many things to put together already and a bunch of burnt 2206 motors still not rewound due to disassembly issues! Eventually I'll get there but until then I'll keep looking at your awesome re-winds for inspiration.
Motor disassembly is not hard, and gets easier every time...

Replace/modify shaft:

Making-and-Replacing-a-Brushless-Motor-Shaft - https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?1240725

Disassembly:

Outrunner-Disassembly-and-Stripping-Gimbal-Motor-Rewind - https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?1823636

Making/Modifying a replacment shaft:

Making-and-Replacing-a-Brushless-Motor-Shaft - https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?1240725

Jack
Nov 21, 2017, 08:26 PM
Test Pilot
teracis's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackerbes
Motor disassembly is not hard, and gets easier every time...

Replace/modify shaft:

Making-and-Replacing-a-Brushless-Motor-Shaft - https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?1240725

Disassembly:

Outrunner-Disassembly-and-Stripping-Gimbal-Motor-Rewind - https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?1823636

Making/Modifying a replacment shaft:

Making-and-Replacing-a-Brushless-Motor-Shaft - https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?1240725

Jack
Thanks for the links, the only trouble I've had is removing the stator from the base. The rest is trivial.
Nov 22, 2017, 07:48 AM
Jack
jackerbes's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by teracis
Thanks for the links, the only trouble I've had is removing the stator from the base. The rest is trivial.
You are absolutely right!

And I have found two methods that worked well for me, one was to direct heat through the bearing tube (bearings removed first) and the other was to put drops of a good penetrating oil on the groove where the bearing and tube meet and give it a night in the freezer. I usually did that with the motor on an "X" mount and attached to a board or aluminum plate and the next day I would wrap the stator with a heavy leather strap, grip that with large water pump pliers and I could break the bond between the glue and the bearing tube quite easily.

You can see the details on that in the thread at the second link I posted.

Good luck with it! After you get the stator off of the tube there still can be some challenges if the windings are saturated with glue! You can see how I dealt with one of those in post #3 here:

hexTronik-DT750 Motor 2PdLRK Rewind for Multicopter - https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?1892195

Jack
Nov 22, 2017, 02:10 PM
Test Pilot
teracis's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackerbes
You are absolutely right!

And I have found two methods that worked well for me, one was to direct heat through the bearing tube (bearings removed first) and the other was to put drops of a good penetrating oil on the groove where the bearing and tube meet and give it a night in the freezer. I usually did that with the motor on an "X" mount and attached to a board or aluminum plate and the next day I would wrap the stator with a heavy leather strap, grip that with large water pump pliers and I could break the bond between the glue and the bearing tube quite easily.

You can see the details on that in the thread at the second link I posted.

Good luck with it! After you get the stator off of the tube there still can be some challenges if the windings are saturated with glue! You can see how I dealt with one of those in post #3 here:

hexTronik-DT750 Motor 2PdLRK Rewind for Multicopter - https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?1892195

Jack
Definitely tried those options on the stubborn motors, one of them I even left in a jar of acetone for a week! I was wondering if I missed some circlip or something but there's nothing I can see. The stator deforms before I can get any movement at all. I could probably just sacrifice one properly to confirm that there's nothing I'm missing. At least then I'd have one apart.

I'd like to think that these smaller motors would be easier to disassemble the stator from the base than the larger motors I've had trouble with. If I ever manage to destroy a set I'll definitely have a go at rewinding them.
Nov 28, 2017, 01:05 PM
Registered User
I have to repair 4 1104's - stator remove seems to be easy - i use "solvent 50" - and the stator is easy to remove. Now - begins the what to do ... wich wire to use - 2 drilled 0,2 mm wire .. the original wire seems to be 0,2 mm. I have seen a YT with drilled wires ...
Nov 28, 2017, 05:52 PM
Jack
jackerbes's Avatar
Is a "drilled wire" a hollow core wire throughout it's length? I have heard of hollow core square and rectangular copper conductors but never magnet wire. I don't think it is available or even practical in the sizes we are using. 0.2mm wire is about 32 AWG wire and that is about as small as is found in any of our motors. Two strands of that 0.2mm wire in parallel would be equivalent in cross section area (and current capacity) to 26 AWG wire.

Jack
Feb 23, 2018, 10:24 AM
Registered User
Hello Jack,

After seen some YT Videos about rewiring such kind of motors, i see that i was wrong with drilled wire. Do you think that 0,2 mm wire is ok for an 1104 - 4000 KV motor. I will start soon to rewind the first motor. Can you give me an advice how many turns i have to do ?

Thank you in advance.
Feb 23, 2018, 01:34 PM
Brisbane, Australia
Hi artusmuc, what motor you are rewinding? If I have done one the same I will have notes. What Kv are you aiming for? If you want the same Kv you can count the turns as you unwind it and rewind the same number of turns. 0.2mm wire is fine for 1104 4000kv.
Feb 23, 2018, 02:44 PM
Registered User
i made a private deal and the seller says to me "high quality motors". at home is see i have 4 defective 1104 4000 kv motors cause the wiring is damaged with the screws. only change to save may invest is to repair this motors. i want to have motors which don't need so much amps with 2s
Feb 23, 2018, 03:28 PM
Brisbane, Australia
Do you have a pic or a link to the motors, or same motor from a different seller or Google search? Regarding current draw, what props do you like to use and what is the flying weight of the finished quad? I can help you with these answers. But generally, if rewound with 0.2mm wire, same number of turns, it should be fine with a 300mAh 2S battery (like the quads in the last pic of post #4).


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