Believer Twin-tractor 1960mm Mapping /FPV Plane - full review / mods / owner's thread - Page 2 - RC Groups
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Nov 08, 2017, 02:41 AM
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Redemptioner's Avatar
Great review, there are few people out there doing decent reviews and you are certainly among that few. Keep up the good work, look forward to the endurance testing.

Glad you ended up with so many photos, makes all the difference being able to see things in detail from multiple angles. I was wondering what that rear hatch was on the bottom and hoping that was not where they wanted us to put AP, the hatch on top for FPV gear right near the tail is also great for separating transmitters and receivers without having to cut them into the wings.

*TWO THUMBS UP*
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Nov 08, 2017, 03:11 AM
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Arxangel's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by henkvdw
Great details. Thanks.
You are welcome!
Nov 08, 2017, 03:12 AM
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Arxangel's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redemptioner
Great review, there are few people out there doing decent reviews and you are certainly among that few. Keep up the good work, look forward to the endurance testing.

Glad you ended up with so many photos, makes all the difference being able to see things in detail from multiple angles. I was wondering what that rear hatch was on the bottom and hoping that was not where they wanted us to put AP, the hatch on top for FPV gear right near the tail is also great for separating transmitters and receivers without having to cut them into the wings.

*TWO THUMBS UP*
Thanks mate! As soon as the new motors are in I will install them and when the weather improves will go see what a Tmotor can do!

At some point I thought I may be going overboard with the photos, especially in the wiring stage... but hey! I have them, why not publish them. Also, it could serve as a wiring guide for any plane, not just this one!
Nov 08, 2017, 03:24 AM
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going to be a bit of a challenge to mount the FPV cam on pan/tilt on the front, but I guess I can use the the solid front to mount the pan servo directly into.

How far back does the block go in the nose, or should I say, how far back to the foam block from the front hatch opening?
Nov 08, 2017, 07:56 AM
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Amazing review as usual Arxangel. Can you give the internal dimension width / height where the nadir camera is ?
Nov 08, 2017, 10:28 AM
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Arxangel's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redemptioner
going to be a bit of a challenge to mount the FPV cam on pan/tilt on the front, but I guess I can use the the solid front to mount the pan servo directly into.

How far back does the block go in the nose, or should I say, how far back to the foam block from the front hatch opening?
The foam in the nose is about 55mm from the lower edge on the hatch opening, and is 43-45mm thick.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hydro_Yde
Amazing review as usual Arxangel. Can you give the internal dimension width / height where the nadir camera is ?
The area where the camera should go is roughly 165mm wide x 120mm long x 120mm tall.
Nov 09, 2017, 01:08 PM
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Arxangel's Avatar
Alright guys, here is the video. Enjoy!

Best designed mapping platform I've seen - Believer 1960mm Twin tractor plane (9 min 27 sec)
Nov 11, 2017, 05:02 AM
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reduced to $220.14 on aliexpress
Nov 11, 2017, 04:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vicben
reduced to $220.14 on aliexpress
and free shipping to most countries....
Nov 12, 2017, 05:46 AM
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Arxangel's Avatar

UPDATE 1 - new motors and a proper endurance


How about this! Ordered the new motors for the Believer on Monday from T-motor, DHL delivered to my door on Friday, had them installed and ready shortly after and Saturday was the endurance day! Top notch customer satisfaction from T-motor... and even though their price is higher... it is not without reason - the quality of these motors is absolutely impeccable and they run smooth as silk... especially when you also put a balanced prop on them! I was so glad that I was going to do the endurance so soon, rather than have to put it off another week!

The motors in question are MN3110 700Kv, and mounted the 10x7E props on them. On 6S the thrust stand showed around 30A and 1500g of thrust for both motors, but keep in mind the 10x7E prop is a high pitch prop, and that is running stalled, so in a static thrust test it will perform worse than in flight where the plane is moving! How, that prop on 6S might actually overload the motors a bit at full throttle, but actually as it turns out the plane takes off just fine at 80% throttle, and I think in the air max amp draw of these motors with these props is less. The amp draw reading showed around 29A for both motors combined at 80% throttle. These might even be able to handle the 11" props without issues and may get some more efficiency in flight.



Since these T-motors are actually copter models, they do not come with any X-mounts, so I had to print some out in order to mount them in the plane.



The previous motors were taller and were sticking out more, but I actually mounted the props and balanced the motors and props together on the thrust stand, and only then mounted the motors in the plane. Sadly, replacing a prop would require me to unmount these and pull them out a bit, but good news is on the Believer these 10" props have probably around 4-5cm ground clearance, so it is unlikely they will break on landings, like it sometimes happens on the EVE-2000 and the Clouds, so I expect not to have to replace them until I either get some nice genuine APC props, or crash the plane!





So, it was finally time for the endurance flight. I decided not to use the RunCam 2 because it is too aerodynamic, and would not be a real representation of the drag that would be created when I put a gimbal up front. To that end I decided to mount my EKEN H9R camera in its protective case, because that added a few benefits to the whole test - it would add more weight to the plane, thus will not test at the lowest possible weight; it will also create more drag, which will be more in line with the gimbal I plan to mount; and it will also keep the camera warm, since it will not get cooled down by the colder air this time of year, and so its battery will last longer.







Oh, something else is also different from last time I was out here... can anyone guess what that is? The motors are not falling apart this time!





And so we get to the flight! First, I would like to say that now with the plane all setup properly, this take off was... unbelievable! I throttled up to 80% as my friend threw it in the air it just kept going in that trajectory perfectly straight.

I would turn your attention to the bottom right corner where the flight timer is. I took off around the 1:20 min mark. If you look at the top left corner, you will see that amp draw is around 27A. You will learn very shortly why I know this value is true!



When it came time for landing, you will notice that the timer is now at 99:17 minutes, so the plane stayed in the air 98 mins, and my throttle position was such so as to allow the plane to climb a little, so not the bare minimum required to keep it in the air. If you look top right corner you will notice that for this flight the plane consumer almost 9000mAh, out of 12000mAh 6S pack that has 2 cells, which tend to die before the rest and drop the whole pack voltage earlier, so I had to land. Still... 9000mAh for 98 mins makes the Believer the most efficient plane I have in my fleet. If I could draw the full 12000mAh out of this pack, which was possible when it was new, the flight would have lasted over 2 hours, as average in flight amp draw works out to under 6A.



And just in case you are wondering what distance was covered and what was the cruising speed, here is the flight summary! Distance covered is almost 96kms, which in 98 mins puts the average cruising speed at something like 59.9km/h. If the throttle is a bit lower so the plane would maintain altitude, it should be able to fly even longer and go much further... to at least 120km on a single 6S 12000mAh LiPo battery. A good LiIon of the same weight would have a capacity of 17500mAh, so flight would be even longer!

Also note the used mAh rating, just in case you forgot what it was... and look at the next photo!



Yes, the charger put back EXACTLY what the AP's estimated "used mAh" was! I am psyched that I got the current sensor scaling correct and it is working well! Looking at the cell voltages below you can probably guess which cells are the bad ones!



And here are some frames take out from the 4k recording of the EKEN H9R. Its review will come shortly!







I also can't end this update without saying how impressed I am by the landing cushions on this plane! They are absolutely the best solution to protect the foam of the fuselage, and also note that there is no damage on them after 6-7 landings of a 3.5kg plane on top of them. There are just some markings on them from the sliding after touchdown, but no damage! LOVE THEM!







I don't think I will publish the video from the flight, because it is super boring - 98 mins of circling above the flying location, but stay tuned as there will be more updates as I install the gimbal and start doing some long...er range flights as I my confidence in the iNav grows!
Nov 12, 2017, 05:53 PM
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Redemptioner's Avatar
awesome, that what I wanted to hear. I will probs go with LDPower motors myself to ensure reliability and performance but goot to know a 31size motor will fit.
Nov 12, 2017, 06:01 PM
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Arxangel's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redemptioner
awesome, that what I wanted to hear. I will probs go with LDPower motors myself to ensure reliability and performance but goot to know a 31size motor will fit.


I'd say going with T-motor has reliability and performance more than covered!

The motor fits, but you do have to insert the mounting bolts before you slide it in the nacelle, as it overhangs them 1-2mm, and you will not be able to insert them later.
Nov 13, 2017, 01:18 PM
Gaftopher
Gary Mortimer's Avatar
I maidened one today for a friend, set up with a Pixhawk in it, with Arduplane fw, 4.3kg auw, 16a battery 4s, 600kv motors, 11inch prop, 500g camera, additional 500g of other PPK stuff and antennas.

We did three flights. One to see if it flew, a second one to autotune and third to try auto take off and landing. The first one all went well and landed, then the autotune was amazing the auto take off all good but the autolands we didn't nail having four or five attempts all gliding too far, but that can be solved. I will make a video shortly but it will not be anywhere near as good as Arxangels the bottom line though, 55 minutes of flying with complete confidence after the first two minutes.

All I popped by to say that this is the first truly fit for purpose mapping airframe that I have flown, and I have flown most of them.

Not only is there enough room for a camera and all that jazz but it comes apart into reasonably sized bits for easy transport. So made to work.

Before this machine, the X-UAV Talon with wing extensions was my favourite that crown has been taken.

I shall watch this thread with interest, I am sure folks are going to do great things with them.
Nov 13, 2017, 04:08 PM
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Arxangel's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Mortimer
I maidened one today for a friend, set up with a Pixhawk in it, with Arduplane fw, 4.3kg auw, 16a battery 4s, 600kv motors, 11inch prop, 500g camera, additional 500g of other PPK stuff and antennas.

We did three flights. One to see if it flew, a second one to autotune and third to try auto take off and landing. The first one all went well and landed, then the autotune was amazing the auto take off all good but the autolands we didn't nail having four or five attempts all gliding too far, but that can be solved. I will make a video shortly but it will not be anywhere near as good as Arxangels the bottom line though, 55 minutes of flying with complete confidence after the first two minutes.

All I popped by to say that this is the first truly fit for purpose mapping airframe that I have flown, and I have flown most of them.

Not only is there enough room for a camera and all that jazz but it comes apart into reasonably sized bits for easy transport. So made to work.

Before this machine, the X-UAV Talon with wing extensions was my favourite that crown has been taken.

I shall watch this thread with interest, I am sure folks are going to do great things with them.
Darn good to hear someone else also has this in the air and is having good results with it!

A question... you sure that battery is 4S and not 6S? 600kv seems kinda low for 11" prop on 4S!

Yes, I can also confirm that this plane likes to glide, so landings need to be from far!
Nov 13, 2017, 06:02 PM
Gaftopher
Gary Mortimer's Avatar
Yes it was 4S and you will see not enough go in the video of our first launch, but we made it work. 6S is most certainly my recommendation!

Believer - Is this the best mapping drone yet? NAVLOG #42 (10 min 27 sec)


I was wrong in my first post, we actually only had two landings, I forgot the first flight went so well we tuned the pitot and then auto tuned on the same flight. Then it was auto take off and several auto landing attempts.

My friend does now have lots of lovely data to crunch in order to help change settings.

I should also say that I live at 5000'and was perhaps 28C when we were flying, the DA must have been knocking 8000 feet I am sure it would be much much better at sea level ;-)
Last edited by Gary Mortimer; Nov 13, 2017 at 06:08 PM.


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