Ashley, glad to hear of your successful maiden! GWS got it right with this one for sure. It really is a joy to fly I've had the Park 400 in a previous moth and with your 3s 1500 lipolys and with an 1147 prop you will get unlimited verticle. Word of caution tho...I tend to fly my planes pretty hard and the park 400 can get pretty darn warm with this setup resulting in a warped cowling.

Enjoy your new Moth!

Originally Posted by ashleyhall

It does however appear that GWS have changed their foam formula - I attempted to spray the model using the Acrylic based paints I have always used, and it started to disolve the foam!!! So word of caution, test before spraying, I took it for granted that it was the same foam as previous GWS models!!

GWS didn't change their "foam formula" All the GWS models I've ever had (7+)were easily dissolved by most spray paints, acrylic or not. It's not the paint per se, it's the solvent/propellant within the paint.

You may have gotten away with painting over the other GWS models because you sprayed in light coats or the paint on the model protected the foam. I've found that sanding the foam before spraying also makes the foam more susceptible to dissolving.

After two failed attempts, I finally made an enjoyable 10 minute maiden flight on my first TM400! I was super-frustrated after the first two attempts because I seemed to have a major lack of power/thrust (btw, I'm running all stock with a 2s 1500 mah lipo). Before I gave up for the day, I noticed the front end looked kind of funny. Yeah, you guessed it, I had the prop on backwards . The more I get into this hobby the more I'm convinced I need to formalize some type of inspection and pre-flight routine, because as careful as I am, I always seem to miss something obvious.

Once airborne I began to understand all the hoopla about the TM. What a great bird. Had some fairly serious winds to contend with, so I didn't get very aggressive. Just looking at my first bipe in the air was enough for me today.

I can predict I'll be looking for more power before long. A couple of you have mentioned the park 400. Haven't heard of this motor...can anyone shoot me a link for more info?

Thanks to the many of you that helped and provided advice and support in making today a success!

Smooth Spanky

Congrats on the maiden.
I think a 3s pack would give you ample power for now.

Originally Posted by Smooth Spanky

After two failed attempts, I finally made an enjoyable 10 minute maiden flight on my first TM400! ... Yeah, you guessed it, I had the prop on backwards . The more I get into this hobby the more I'm convinced I need to formalize some type of inspection and pre-flight routine, because as careful as I am, I always seem to miss something obvious.

Smooth Spanky

Congrats SS of the successful maiden. I just finished the airframe on my TM400... compared to my PT17, she is a beautiful bird. I still have to add the electronics and paint (I got the SG version since I use AXI power), but it is such a classic shape!

I also agree that a preflight routine or checklist is essential. After just a year of flying, I have not done the reversed prop bit yet, but I have managed to take off 4 times with my TX antenna down (following a range check)! Twice resulted in crashes with the glitchy GWS RX I used at first, but the last 2 were saves (thanks to my Berg RXs), allowing ample time to catch the control problem and quickly extend the antenna to regain control.

That stock 400 motor will not produce much power on only 2S voltage! I don't know what gearing/prop you are using, but check out the GWS charts of the 400 vs the 350C (which I flew initially). I use NIMH cells, and the 350C was mediorce on 7 cells, and the 400 takes one additional cell to achieve the same thrust in most cases for similar gearing.

BTW, where was your balance point set up, and how much clay (if any) did you have to use to balance it?

Originally Posted by ashleyhall

Well maiden flew yesterday...
...It does however appear that GWS have changed their foam formula - I attempted to spray the model using the Acrylic based paints I have always used, and it started to disolve the foam!!! So word of caution, test before spraying, I took it for granted that it was the same foam as previous GWS models!!

Congrats on the successful maiden! Where was your balance point and did you need to add and clay? I'm on the final build stage with my first TM400, so am trying to anticpate balancing needs.

BTW, what paint brand were you using? I've got two cans of Tamiya spray acrylic I was going to try... says "for plastic" with no warnings on the label about foam, and the LHS guy said it is OK for foam, whereas he said the Testor's acrylic can cause damage if applied too heavily (plus the Testors has a label warning to try on foam before using).

I don't want to ruin such a classic, elegant-looking airframe!

TomFrank:
I'm glad you asked about the CofG because it's my remaining area of concern.

I attempted to set the CofG as you suggested in post #14 of this same thread. My plane is totally stock along with a 2S 1500 lipo. I moved everything fore as much as possible, but it still took SIGNIFICANT weight to balance out.

I did not use the clay provided with the kit because I was concerned it would come loose during cold Michigan winters. I used lead weight increments which I CA'd into the cowl (see picture). If you refer to the photo, I'm saying that 1 square = ~10mm in length. To balance the way I wanted it to, I needed 10 of these squares. I don't have a scale so I can't tell you how much weight that is, but my calibrated hand tells me it's much heavier that the clay provided with the kit.

I was surprised that it took that much weight to get the CofG right. It did fly ok, but I have this nagging feeling that I'm doing something wrong and that I've got way too much weight on board.

As I was measuring the CofG I started to wonder which horizontal surface on the plane must be level to constitute a balanced plane. FYI, I used the horisontal stabilizer as the reference surface for level during balancing.

Anybody shocked by this amount of weight? As always, feedback is much appreciated.

Smooth Spanky

oops, sorry about last picture...re-posting....
************************

TomFrank:
I'm glad you asked about the CofG because it's my remaining area of concern.

I attempted to set the CofG as you suggested in post #14 of this same thread. My plane is totally stock along with a 2S 1500 lipo. I moved everything fore as much as possible, but it still took SIGNIFICANT weight to balance out.

I did not use the clay provided with the kit because I was concerned it would come loose during cold Michigan winters. I used lead weight increments which I CA'd into the cowl (see picture). If you refer to the photo, I'm saying that 1 square = ~10mm in length. To balance the way I wanted it to, I needed 10 of these squares. I don't have a scale so I can't tell you how much weight that is, but my calibrated hand tells me it's much heavier that the clay provided with the kit.

I was surprised that it took that much weight to get the CofG right. It did fly ok, but I have this nagging feeling that I'm doing something wrong and that I've got way too much weight on board.

As I was measuring the CofG I started to wonder which horizontal surface on the plane must be level to constitute a balanced plane. FYI, I used the horisontal stabilizer as the reference surface for level during balancing.

Anybody shocked by this amount of weight? As always, feedback is much appreciated.

Smooth Spanky

Originally Posted by Smooth Spanky

oops, sorry about last picture...re-posting....
************************

TomFrank:
I'm glad you asked about the CofG because it's my remaining area of concern.

I attempted to set the CofG as you suggested in post #14 of this same thread. My plane is totally stock along with a 2S 1500 lipo. I moved everything fore as much as possible, but it still took SIGNIFICANT weight to balance out.

I did not use the clay provided with the kit because I was concerned it would come loose during cold Michigan winters. I used lead weight increments which I CA'd into the cowl (see picture). If you refer to the photo, I'm saying that 1 square = ~10mm in length. To balance the way I wanted it to, I needed 10 of these squares. I don't have a scale so I can't tell you how much weight that is, but my calibrated hand tells me it's much heavier that the clay provided with the kit.

I was surprised that it took that much weight to get the CofG right. It did fly ok, but I have this nagging feeling that I'm doing something wrong and that I've got way too much weight on board.

As I was measuring the CofG I started to wonder which horizontal surface on the plane must be level to constitute a balanced plane. FYI, I used the horisontal stabilizer as the reference surface for level during balancing.

Anybody shocked by this amount of weight? As always, feedback is much appreciated.

Smooth Spanky

Thanks for the details, SS. Those squares of lead look to be about 1/2 in. based on the ruler in the pic. I can't tell the thickness, though. I assumed they are about 1/8 in. thick, which would make each square weight about 1/4 oz (lead weighs about 6.7 oz. per cu. in.). So 10 of those would weigh about 2.5 oz. If they are slightly thicker, they would be proportionally heavier of course, but the weight seems reasonable given how light that 2S lipo pack is.

The clay sticks are about 1 oz. each as I recall. I agree with you about their questionable securement.

I agree my 3s lipo balances the plane perfectly- probably the additional cell.

On my TM400, with a 3s tp2100 it balances at the middle of the cabane struts on the top wing, and it flies really nose heavy. I am about to put a little piece of velcro on the bottom of the front cockpit and set up the battery so that it's at the back of the front cockpit. I found out that the instructions place the CG way too far foward, and I was having to hold a little power and run an insane elevator throw to get a good 3 point landing, it just wouldn't stall with the power off.

Update: I just went flying again, and with the plane balancing at the rear of where the cabane struts atach to the top wing, it flies a whole lot better. No where near as much down elevator for inverted flight, easy flares to a three point landing, and it will snap roll in about half a second!!!. Also, not as much trim changes for different speeds. According to a dive test, I am still nose heavy, but I'll leave it where it is, a little stability is a good thing.

Also, running 3s lipo's, full throttle is just silly. It will easily loop from level flight, preform stall turns, snap rolls, and aileron rolls at half throttle. I am reserving full throttle for 100 foot tall stall turns and loops. To be honest, I think it's overpowered on 3s, I can take off and do a scale like climb at half throttle or less.

Get that thing built! It is a great flying model, and has now become my favorite airplane.

I can suggest this ebay setup I purchased from e.powerjet. They have a 3700 setup that will fit in the GWS 400 Gearbox. I purchased their "Supercombo" that included 3700Kv brushless motor and super light heat sink, 3 GWS Shafts, 1 set Ball bearings, two 8" GWS Props. This with the 11.1 1200 Lipo's enabled a ROG in less than 2' of ground with 45 degree climbout at 1/2 throttle. A quick cruiser at less than 1/3 throttle. The power in unbelievable. After 15 minutes of lazy cruise, I could hold it verticle apply throttle, and it would leap upward. This Bipe is a lot faster than I thought.

I can also state that these guys have a great turnaround, and there express shipping takes little less than a week. They replied to all my email, even the tech questions, very quickly. Its a quality product, they also sell BL speed controls, which I am using, for about 1/2 of the the PHX line can run. Yes PHX has lots of features, if you just need a controller, the e.powerjet rocks.

Originally Posted by ashleyhall

Anyway, this is the third of the GWS models I've built, the first two had complications in terms of warping fuselage etc - this time it seems GWS have sharpened up their act, the kit's beautiful, and a pleasure to build!

Just need a little more power now, considering the Park 400 motor brushless as a replacement.

Can you post the link from Ebay for this? What did you pay for it?

http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsofindty...ordsperpageZ50

or you can click search then click search by seller, enter e.powerjet. From my experience, this setup would be excellant in the GWS Warbids.