aileron versus rudder - RC Groups
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Nov 05, 2017, 11:31 AM
Registered User
Discussion

aileron versus rudder


After destroying 4 planes 1 rtf and 3 scratchbuilts. I finally downloaded a simulator . All of my planes were RET but the simulator plane has ailerons. Surprise surprise when I don't use the rudder and use the ailerons I can almost fly do any of you find this true for yourselves ? I am considering building a aileron only plane your opinion is valued!
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Nov 05, 2017, 11:53 AM
B for Bruce
BMatthews's Avatar
When a RET model is designed correctly there's not a huge issue with flying without ailerons. So I guess my first question is what planes did you fly that produced so much trouble? And did you use the "aileron" channel for the rudder or did you try to run with the rudder on the left stick?

Typically a RET model is going to have fairly generous dihedral. The rudder works with that dihedral to roll the model into and out of the turns. The combination of the rudder and dihedral basically acts just like ailerons. If the model does not have enough dihedral then you have troubles. That's why I'm asking about the models you've flown and crashed. Ideally with some pictures of a few of them to allow us to check that all the required features are there.
Nov 05, 2017, 11:56 AM
I don't want to "Switch Now"
pmackenzie's Avatar
"almost fly" sounds like you are still crashing the sim

A good R/E plane is easy to fly, but you can get into situations where the rudder response is much slower than ailerons would be.
(Low airspeed reduces the required yaw/roll couple)

As BMathews said, rudder should be on right stick if there are no ailerons (assuming mode 2).
Nov 05, 2017, 12:00 PM
Registered User
The planes O have destroyed so far are a Dromid a Voyager and 3 cheap n easys that I downloaded the plans here . My rudder stick is on the left. Thank you for your reply!
Nov 05, 2017, 12:03 PM
Registered User
Moving the rudder servo as I type! I have a lot to learn good thing rd planes are so much cheaper than they use to be.
Nov 05, 2017, 12:03 PM
Registered User
Grup's Avatar
It sounds like you crashed all of your real planes, but you are not crashing in the simulator. In the best of situations, you would like for that to be reversed.

Just because you are not crashing an aileron plane in the simulator does not mean that you WON'T crash a real aileron plane. I would suggest

1) Spend lots more time practicing on the simulator
2) Provide some more info on which planes you crashed. Some planes, even if they are RET, are harder to fly than if they have ailerons. To start out, you want beginner/easy planes, regardless of how they are made to turn
3) "Aileron only"; I have a couple of those. But I hand launch them. Without rudder, you will have difficulty taxiing on ground. Is that really what you want?

Regards
Nov 05, 2017, 12:28 PM
Registered User
3 of the planes where cheap n easys with 3s and a blue wonder 1300 kv motor that is the picture if my attachment went thru.The Dromida Voyager is a 1s trainer that I really didn't care for.
Nov 05, 2017, 12:36 PM
I don't want to "Switch Now"
pmackenzie's Avatar
That model needs ailerons, if anything it will roll the wrong way when you give rudder:
-It has no dihedral ( the upturned tips do give it a little)
-The rudder is all above the CG, so will make it roll opposite to yaw direction.
Nov 05, 2017, 12:45 PM
Registered User
Thanks to everyone who answered I'm headed back to the plan section and I'm going to spend hours on this simulator. It repairs the planes much faster than me!
Nov 05, 2017, 01:33 PM
Registered User
Try "LOCKING " the rudder and using " ELEVONS " . You will have to cut the elevator and set it up for elevons . I fly some flat pans now and then. Right now I'm redoing a " Moon Star " that I designed back about 82 , it uses elevons as the tail is a 1/4 moon and locked in place . My biggest problem is orientation ( especially seeing I just had some Eye surgery ) it always looks the same no mater which way your going . I put streamers on it till I get used to it . ENJOY !!! RED
Nov 05, 2017, 02:27 PM
IMO ( In My Opinion ) →
balsa or carbon's Avatar
In My Opinion : for new RC flyers , the issue is not "aileron vs. rudder" .... but "self-righting vs. NON self-righting" ( stability ) , and secondary to that is "slower flying vs. faster flying " ( light wing loading for slow flight ) . I have taught dozens of first timers to fly RC in the last 7 years , and ALL of them were able to fly successfully because the home made plane I use to teach them ( EzFly ) is very stable and slow flying . An added bonus to the EzFly is it protects the motor/prop in a crash .



Here is one of my EzFlys :


Copy of EzFly with under-cambered wing (1 min 57 sec)
Nov 05, 2017, 03:05 PM
B for Bruce
BMatthews's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by RetiredDave
3 of the planes where cheap n easys with 3s and a blue wonder 1300 kv motor that is the picture if my attachment went thru.The Dromida Voyager is a 1s trainer that I really didn't care for.
I think we just figured out a couple of things. First off always make your main roll control on the aileron side of the Tx. If the model is RET then the rudder servo should be plugged into the aileron port on the Rx and you use the aileron stick on the Rx.

Cheap N Easy by Rcrich (3 min 4 sec)


Second is that despite what the designer says about the Cheap n'Easy delta style flying wing I would say that it's not a good trainer. First off it needs to mostly fly around in that nose high attitude seen in the video above. Or at least that's how all the videos I looked at seems to show it. Second is that the rudder on it seems like it does very little but suddenly does a lot. This makes it a very unpredictable thing to learn on. You would be far better off with a more normal sort of airplane design. It's hard to learn anything when the model seems to be possessed by vindictive spirits seeking to take over all the time. That sort of thing is great fun later on but not when you're learning to fly.

The real reason why you're doing better with the simulator is not due to the ailerons but due to the fast that the sims respond fairly smoothly. Not something that I see the Cheap n'Easy doing. Also I've yet to fly a simulator that handles like a real airplane. They are great for basics but the real ones do have "personalities" of their own.

A far better option if you want to carve your own models out of foam and stuff would be something more like these two that can be cut and carved out of some hardware store insulation foam. Or do the one shown by Balsa or Carbon from dollar store foam board.

$5 RC Trainer (5 min 25 sec)


Best Beginner RC Plane (3 min 2 sec)
Nov 05, 2017, 04:31 PM
Registered User
AntiArf's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by balsa or carbon
In My Opinion : for new RC flyers , the issue is not "aileron vs. rudder" .... but "self-righting vs. NON self-righting"]
Exactly. Was amazed to see the thread go so far without mention, until you mentioned it.
I have a Guillow's P51 REAT aileron flyer with plan (far more than scale) dihedral. Easy to fly using AET only, as a trainer Cub with added dihedral and RET control.
Nov 05, 2017, 05:49 PM
Bombs away! Err...landing
Ira NZ's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMatthews
I think we just figured out a couple of things. First off always make your main roll control on the aileron side of the Tx. If the model is RET then the rudder servo should be plugged into the aileron port on the Rx and you use the aileron stick on the Rx.
Yeah, that's what I always say, there is no aileron or rudder channel, or axis or stick. What servo or control surface does what doesn't matter while flying. There is roll, pitch, yaw and speed. If it's a rudder, aileron or little hamsters running around changing the CG creating the end result only matters when setting it up.
Nov 05, 2017, 06:44 PM
B for Bruce
BMatthews's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ira NZ
Yeah, that's what I always say, there is no aileron or rudder channel, or axis or stick. What servo or control surface does what doesn't matter while flying. There is roll, pitch, yaw and speed. If it's a rudder, aileron or little hamsters running around changing the CG creating the end result only matters when setting it up.
Eggzackly


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