Help with my scratch build plane | Vintage Piper - RC Groups
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Nov 04, 2017, 12:08 PM
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Help!

Help with my scratch build plane | Vintage Piper


How have made a simple 3d capable plane
With 1000mm wingspan and 500 mm fuselage
I want to know is that there anything more can be done?

And pics will be added soon
Last edited by Sushmit; Nov 17, 2017 at 10:51 AM.
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Nov 04, 2017, 12:19 PM
IMO ( In My Opinion ) →
balsa or carbon's Avatar
I took a look at your other posts/photos .
Will you be flying an RC plane for the very first time ?
Will you have the assistance of an experienced RC flyer ?
Nov 05, 2017, 11:32 AM
Registered User

Not really first time but


Yeah I will be flying this type of plane first time acutally i am a quad fan but wanted to try plane so I made one so wanted to know that are there any improvements that can be done?
And I will have no flight instructor
Nov 05, 2017, 12:21 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sushmit
Yeah I will be flying this type of plane first time acutally i am a quad fan but wanted to try plane so I made one so wanted to know that are there any improvements that can be done?
And I will have no flight instructor

dont make mods. build a plane as per the plan and it should fly.. Now the trouble is without an instructor you could crash and not know if it was plane fault or dumb thumbs...

a simulator will help
Nov 05, 2017, 12:47 PM
IMO ( In My Opinion ) →
balsa or carbon's Avatar
What type of plane have you flown before ? IMO , experience with quads doesn't help that much when transitioning to planes .

For an unassisted first time RC plane flyer , I recommend starting with a proper trainer . A proper trainer will :
1 ) Be able to fly slowly ( gives you time to correct a mistake ) .
2 ) Self level ( return to straight , level , right-side-up flight all by itself ) .

The main ingredient for slow flight is "light wing loading" , maximum wing area combined with minimum weight .
The main ingredient for self leveling is a high wing with dihedral or polyhedral ( wing ends angled up ) .

The home made plane I use to teach first time RC plane flyers is the EzFly , which has the added bonus of protecting the motor/prop in a crash . Here's one of mine :


Copy of EzFly with under-cambered wing (1 min 57 sec)
Nov 06, 2017, 04:57 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by balsa or carbon
What type of plane have you flown before ? IMO , experience with quads doesn't help that much when transitioning to planes .

For an unassisted first time RC plane flyer , I recommend starting with a proper trainer . A proper trainer will :
1 ) Be able to fly slowly ( gives you time to correct a mistake ) .
2 ) Self level ( return to straight , level , right-side-up flight all by itself ) .

The main ingredient for slow flight is "light wing loading" , maximum wing area combined with minimum weight .
The main ingredient for self leveling is a high wing with dihedral or polyhedral ( wing ends angled up ) .

The home made plane I use to teach first time RC plane flyers is the EzFly , which has the added bonus of protecting the motor/prop in a crash . Here's one of mine :


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxaUadvhgbc
I belong to India and here we don't get foam board easily and if available it cost around 50$ per sheet and well I am using openpilot cc3d on it for assistance
Nov 06, 2017, 05:40 AM
Registered User
what are you building with?

With alot of the foamies weight is a real issue. I build a yak 55 out of the heavier foamboard, which needed a heavier motor and battery. this thing is not easy to fly, it doesnt float and doesnt fly as slow as it should. has really bad stall characteristics
Nov 06, 2017, 09:06 AM
An itch?. Scratch build.
eflightray's Avatar
I assume the model you are talking about is the one in this thread ---

Need help with my homemade plane!

It might have been easier if you had continued with that thread so people knew what the model looked like, and not started a new thread.
Nov 06, 2017, 01:03 PM
IMO ( In My Opinion ) →
balsa or carbon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sushmit
I belong to India and here we don't get foam board easily and if available it cost around 50$ per sheet and well I am using openpilot cc3d on it for assistance
Based on this photo ↓ in your other thread : it looks very heavy with all the tape covering , landing gear etc. The heavy weight ( relative to the wing area ) will FORCE it to fly fast .... making it more difficult to fly . And it has anhedral ( wings angled DOWN ) , which will make it LESS stable ... ALSO making it more difficult to fly . I doubt electronic stabilization will help .
Nov 06, 2017, 01:18 PM
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Extreme Sports's Avatar
...and all that is before even looking at the empennage. Ever seen a real plane with those tail proportions? There is a good reason for that. You were given some good pointers on the other thread which for some reason you ignored and instead made an already odd looking vertical stabilizer even more odd.

Oh, and it might help to widen the undercarriage track....looks very wobbly with that narrow gear.
Nov 06, 2017, 01:20 PM
IMO ( In My Opinion ) →
balsa or carbon's Avatar
Here is a video of a plane made by a guy ( also in India ) who asked for help here on RCG . He made his plane very heavy and with aileron/elevator control , you can see and hear in the video that it has to fly fast .... and he has a hard time getting the wings to return to level , even though the wing has some polyhedral .


R I P my plane (0 min 17 sec)








He listened to and followed the advice given , which was : make the plane lightweight , with more polyhedral and with rudder/elevator control . Here is the result :


Flew great (4 min 48 sec)
Last edited by balsa or carbon; Nov 06, 2017 at 01:38 PM.
Nov 06, 2017, 08:07 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by bazsound
what are you building with?

With alot of the foamies weight is a real issue. I build a yak 55 out of the heavier foamboard, which needed a heavier motor and battery. this thing is not easy to fly, it doesnt float and doesnt fly as slow as it should. has really bad stall characteristics
I am using simple packing thermacol
Nov 06, 2017, 08:09 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Extreme Sports
...and all that is before even looking at the empennage. Ever seen a real plane with those tail proportions? There is a good reason for that. You were given some good pointers on the other thread which for some reason you ignored and instead made an already odd looking vertical stabilizer even more odd.

Oh, and it might help to widen the undercarriage track....looks very wobbly with that narrow gear.
Sorry but I have increased the surface area of rudder but due to lack of material I cannot elongate the fuselage (it is gliding very well)
Nov 07, 2017, 01:08 AM
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Extreme Sports's Avatar
Sushmit, I think you misunderstood the suggestions. No one said increase the rudder area - the suggestion was to straighten it. It was the horizontal stabilizer was the one that was far, far too small. So reduce the new VS a bit, increase the HS and add dihedral rather than anhedral and your plane will fly better. A small HS can work on fast flying planes, but the moment they try to fly slow, the HS cannot provide enough stabilizing force, so the plane will become unstable in pitch (usually felt as the elevator becoming ineffective and the plane nose-diving).

This is never going to be a 3D plane so ignore any advice related to 3D - so for example I see no need to elongate the fuselage. Yes, the wingspan is a bit long relative to the fuse and empennage but if you increase the VS (and maybe add polyhedral) as suggested I think you might be ok.

And always keep it light

Hope that helps.

EDIT: Here is a diagram I found somewhere with the rough proportions you want to aim for. Of course, these are guidelines and you can deviate a bit, but deviate too far and your plane will probably be less easy to fly. If you compare your plane to this diagram, the things that stand out are:
1) Wings are quite long relative to everything else
2) Horizontal stabilizer is tiny
3)There is anhedral rather than dihedral (you need dihedral for a rudder to work as your roll control; with ailerons you can have a flat wing, but then the plane won't have any self-righting behaviour - i.e. it will be less stable. In general, anhedral makes a plane unstable, polyhedral makes it very stable. But polyhedral does not work so well with ailerons, so if you stay with ailerons rather than rudder, then about 3-5 degrees of dihedral should be fine. If stability is your goal, add polyhedral and use a rudder rather than ailerons).
4) Rudder is very tall
5) Landing gear is very narrow

Of these the anhedral and the tiny HS are probably the most important ones to fix if you want a stable plane. I don't think your fuselage needs to be lengthened at all if you fix the HS. It looks a bit short relative to the wing, but that is partly from the angles of the photographs, and wings can be a bit longer than the guidelines and still fly well (arguably better as the wing loading drops)
Last edited by Extreme Sports; Nov 07, 2017 at 03:17 AM.
Nov 07, 2017, 04:11 AM
Registered User
Sushmit I noticed that you're from Kanpur in India.
There are multiple places where you can get cheap foam or make do with substitutes in India. There's an online store named www.vortex-rc.com where you can get good dollar tree foam board substitutes and depron sheets for a nominal price of around 15$ or 950₹ for 10 sheets of 5mm depron. You can cover that with light packing tape and it would be strong enough to build the EZFly or the blubaby trainer. If you have access to 2mm coro then you can also try building the coro pusher trainer by ExtremeSports, unfortunately, that store sells coro but only in 3mm and 4mm size. They also sell multiple kits to start with. The store is located in Allahabad so I would recommend you to drive there one day and visit them personally. You can also try contacting the students of IIT Kanpur. They might be knowing the local sources of building materials since there are a lot of aeromodellers and they have a flying club as well. Can you post a list of electronics that you're using? That'll help us help you better. You might also want to look at a way of adding some sort of a spar to your wings.

All the best.
Nitesh.


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