US F5J Team Selection Process - RC Groups
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View Poll Results: Which format should be used the US Team Selections for F5J?
Single Event 37 64.91%
Multi-Event 2 3.51%
Multi Event + Team Select Event 18 31.58%
Voters: 57. You may not vote on this poll

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Nov 01, 2017, 11:37 AM
Registered User
Discussion

US F5J Team Selection Process


I am starting this thread on behalf of the US F5J Tour Advisory Group to discuss pilot preferences for the upcoming F5J US Team Selections. This thread is intended to provide input and guidance to the AMA Team Selection committee that will ultimately produce a proposal for the team selection process and present that to the AMA FAI committee which will then send it to participants for a vote. It is clearly helpful for the committee to start from the position of understanding the desires of the US F5J community in formulating a proposal that will pass the vote.

We are expecting to conduct this discussion for about 2 weeks. At the conclusion of the discussion we will formulate a poll that describes the permutations that are available and desired by the community. Those results and these discussions will be made available to the AMA TS committee.

Once that is complete, a formal proposal will be created and submitted to the AMA, and as I indicated, to the pilots for a vote. Ratification of the TS program will then enable the official program to be published and then the request for Team Selection Event site(s) will be sent out. We expect that to happen no later than mid January.

Please keep this discussion civil and focused on the TS process.

There are generally 2 approaches to a team selection:
  1. A single TS Event where the top 3 pilots are selected for the team
  2. A multi-event selection where the results of several events determine the team

Note there are various permutations of each of these. I will attempt a few pros and cons to start the discussion,

SINGLE TS EVENT
  • Generally the way US Teams are selected
  • Minimizes the costs associated with participating in multiple events
  • Much easier to organize
  • Could be 2 or 3 days in duration
  • Allows all competitive pilots to compete against each other
  • May not provide difficult or varied conditions that could affect performance
  • May not reward pilots that are consistent as much as a multi event

MULTI EVENT TS
  • Rewards pilots that are consistent in several events
  • Can provide varied conditions challenging pilots
  • More difficult to organize - must have multiple locations volunteer
  • Competition may not be equal at all events
  • Costs are higher for participants since locations can be widely separated

This is just a starting point for discussion. Feel free to discussion the merits of the points above, and to contribute your own feelings and observations about the processes.

Let the conversation begin!
Jim
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Nov 01, 2017, 02:47 PM
Registered User
Hi Jim
Thank you for doing this.

I think the selection process should be a weekend event just like it is in 3J and 3B and many others.
While there are merits on the multi event approach, many of the top pilots may not have a chance to attend every event and those that have the time and money will benefit.
In a single weekend every one has the same chance and with no fly offs the contest is long enough to off set a mistake or two.

My two cents.
Nov 01, 2017, 04:14 PM
Registered User
R.M. Gellart's Avatar
Single event, JMO.

Marc
Nov 01, 2017, 09:55 PM
Oleg Golovidov
olgol's Avatar
If we go with a single TS event, we should consider what F3J TS event is doing. 2 days of 10 min rounds, and the 3rd day only the top 10-12 pilots fly, 15 min rounds. It is kind of a giant flyoff but the scores carry over.
Nov 01, 2017, 10:33 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by olgol
If we go with a single TS event, we should consider what F3J TS event is doing. 2 days of 10 min rounds, and the 3rd day only the top 10-12 pilots fly, 15 min rounds. It is kind of a giant flyoff but the scores carry over.
FYI - in F3J TS there is no downselect, all pilots fly all 3 days, Part of this is because of the team needs for the winches. All possibilities can be considered though.
Jim
Nov 02, 2017, 12:50 AM
Registered User
Absolutely 100% no flyoffs. Everyone flies the entire contest
Nov 02, 2017, 09:57 AM
Oleg Golovidov
olgol's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimsoars
FYI - in F3J TS there is no downselect, all pilots fly all 3 days, Part of this is because of the team needs for the winches. All possibilities can be considered though.
Jim
Jim, thanks for the correction. Not sure why I was under that impression (down-selection).

For F5J since we do not have teams (although this is a whole other discussion, do we want/need teams? 2 pilot teams can be used), we are not limited by that issue with regards to flyoffs/down-selection.
Nov 02, 2017, 10:01 AM
Oleg Golovidov
olgol's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by marios
Absolutely 100% no flyoffs. Everyone flies the entire contest
Curious, why are you so opposed to flyoffs?
Or rather, down-selection.

If flyoffs are flown per F5J rules, with a 'clean slate', then I agree, there is not enough rounds. But if the preliminary scores are carried forward, and a large group of pilots flies 'additional' 6-8 rounds, it makes sense to me.
JMHO.
Nov 02, 2017, 10:01 AM
Registered User
jtlsf5's Avatar
Single event, no team/timer protection, all fly against all.
Nov 02, 2017, 10:41 AM
E sailplane thermal hack
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtlsf5
Single event, no team/timer protection, all fly against all.
+1 to that,,, seems most fair to largest number.
Nov 02, 2017, 02:14 PM
Registered User
What I like the most about the single event is that everyone has to fly against each other in the same competition. Just my 2C.
Nov 02, 2017, 06:59 PM
ak79's Avatar
I'm 100% against a single event. I've already made my opinion known to the board.
Nov 03, 2017, 01:40 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by ak79
I'm 100% against a single event. I've already made my opinion known to the board.
Assuming that by "The Board" you mean the F5J Tour Advisory Group" it needs to be clear that the Advisory Group has no say in the decision making process of the Team Selection committee. Our only role is as a concerned set of pilots to provide data to the Team Selection Committee that they can then use to make their decision. Any guidance, information or polls conducted here are not binding for the purposes of the AMA process.

That said - It would not be a prudent move by said committee to ignore clear preferences by the competing pilots...

Jim
Nov 04, 2017, 12:17 PM
AZ Outback
Robert Burson's Avatar
More in the mix, how about flying and scoring in (_X__) number of F5J events over a period of 12 months, before TS ?

Might not be a bad idea for F3J, also.
Last edited by Robert Burson; Nov 04, 2017 at 12:32 PM.
Nov 04, 2017, 12:25 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Burson
More in the mix, how about flying and scoring in (_X__) number of F5J events over a period of 12 months, before TS ?
Hi Bob - I'm not sure what value that provides. It is not a skill qualification, and I'm not sure many folks show up at a TS with zero skill, and even if they do, I don't see the harm. There is harm, however, in limiting attendance. The AMA funding rules use the number of pilots at the TS as a major funding qualifier. I would think we want to encourage attendance to maximize AMA funding.

Just my thoughts.
Jim


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