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Oct 28, 2017, 02:54 PM
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"Aerodynamically, it was a one third scale..."

I am reading about the Avro 707 in Wikipedia. The first paragraph reads:
The Avro 707 (also known as Type 707) was a British experimental aircraft built to test the tailless thick delta wing configuration chosen for the Avro 698 jet bomber, later named the Vulcan. In particular, the low-speed characteristics of such aircraft were not well known at the time. Aerodynamically, it was a one third scale version of the Vulcan.
What does the author mean by "Aerodynamically, it was a one third scale version of the Vulcan."?

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Oct 28, 2017, 04:41 PM
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Maybe one third Reynolds number? In the Vulcan wikipedia article, it is simply "one third scale".
Oct 28, 2017, 06:51 PM
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Checking the wingspan
I am guessing it was just 1/3 span etc
hold a ruler to the screen on this image, check the 707 wing span against the 698
Oct 28, 2017, 07:14 PM
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Grup's Avatar
You might find some interesting info on this by looking up similitude in wikipedia. I think the term aerodynamic... Is a bit ambiguous

Oct 29, 2017, 01:33 PM
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I interpret it to mean that there were significant differences, but not ones that affected aerodynamics? In other words, a very poor scale model, except in that one sense. So the landing gear could be completely different, for instance. In the picture, I notice that the little ones have one engine, compared to four on the big ones.

I notice that one of the 707's seems to have wing tips that go almost to a point, but the others are cut off, similar to the 698's.
Oct 29, 2017, 01:38 PM
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BMatthews's Avatar
As it happens it was actually a 1/3 wingspan of the final Vulcan. As for "aerodynamically" I'd say that's a bit of fancy on the part of the author.

The Wikipedia write up from someone out there stated that the 707 was a proof of concept aircraft to test some aspects of a thick delta wing to gain information to be used in the development of the actual Vulcan.
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Oct 29, 2017, 03:30 PM
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eflightray's Avatar
Avro 707a was for high speed handling, the Avro 707b was for low speed handling, also fitted with a dorsal air intake to the engine. There was also a 707c for high speed handling.

Note, all true test pilots wore a suit with a pocket handkerchief ---

Avro Type 707 Series Research Aircraft (1 min 25 sec)

Oct 29, 2017, 03:52 PM
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always admired these (before they crashed)

De Havilland Swallow (2 min 13 sec)

DH108 Swallow R/C model (5 min 38 sec)
Oct 29, 2017, 06:01 PM
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Grup's Avatar
The swallows look like a Dynam Me 163.
Nov 02, 2017, 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Grup
The swallows look like a Dynam Me 163.
The DH 108 'Swallow' was inspired by the Me163. (The real one, not the Dynam version )
But it was even more lethal than the Me163, killing three of the only four pilots who ever flew it.

The only one who survived was Eric 'Winkle' Brown, probably the most experienced test pilot in the world, having flown a vast number of 'advanced' aircraft. He managed to tame the DH 108 but said it was a 'killer'. He was the only non-German pilot who was brave (or foolish) enough ever to fly the Me163 under power, though others flew it as a glider.

As for the 'scale' of the 707, I don't think it had an actual 'scale', they just made it small enough to be reasonably economical to build.

Here's another interesting one. It was a Fairey Delta 2 (one time holder of the world speed record at 1,132 mph) with the original wing removed and a 'model' of the Concorde wing fitted for testing. Here's a picture of them both, '777' the original, and another one, '774', fitted with the much more advanced (it's not just the outline that was changed) Concorde type wing:

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