Chrysalis 2M Electric help/advice - RC Groups
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Oct 28, 2017, 02:18 PM
Pro Bro #1963
Discussion

Chrysalis 2M Electric help/advice


Hoping Don will also chime in here......

I've wanted to build a Chrysalis for almost 20yrs now. I was set on the 1.5M HLG but after more thinking, I think that the 2M Electric would be even better as far as reaching thermals etc. Would this be correct thinking? I've had my share of HLG's and they're lots of fun but I mainly got 1-2min. flights on average with the occasional 45min. + thrown in here and there. I thought that the 2M electric would be nice since I wouldn't have to drag out the highstart and all that goes with it. I fly by myself so it's a lot of work just for a few flights now and then. I guess I'm the old school glider flying type that kinda looked at "Electric" as cheating in some slight way which has caused some hesitation when considering an electric glider. I did fly a Radian some a few years ago and it was EASY to thermal since you could climb high to begin with. That's my basis for thinking that the "E" Chrysalis would be a good choice.
So, I'd appreciate any input you guys could give and what would be a good, inexpensive motor, esc and folding prop setup for this bird.

BTW, I live in SW Virginia.......it's a lot of farmland and wooded areas that is rather "hilly" in places. I'd say that it's a light lift environment on most days.
Thanks!!!
Last edited by flygilmore; Oct 28, 2017 at 04:40 PM.
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Oct 28, 2017, 08:27 PM
Registered User
Don Stackhouse's Avatar
If you're looking for a plane that uses an inexpensive motor, it's probably best to stay with the 1.5 meter electric. We designed it around the little Suppo 22 mm motor, and we carry it and the folding prop. As 1.5 meters go, the aspect ratio on ours is lower than most sailplanes that size, so it has a wing chord closer to that of a typical 2-meter (and therefore the visibility of a 2-meter).

Also, when you're looking for something with even more performance, the electric version of our 2-meter F3-RES Chrysalis Lite should be available (Joe is working on the instructions for that one now). It uses that same Suppo motor and prop, but with a 3S battery instead of 2S.

The big 2-meter uses a larger motor. Motor weight should ideally be around 5.5 to 6 ounces. The one we recommend is a Himax 3522-0700. It's a quality motor from a reliable manufacturer, and has great product support. However, you get what you pay for, and if you're on a budget, it's not especially cheap. There are other motors that will work (I have a Turnigy in test), but if you go for one that weighs much less, you will need to add a greater amount of weight behind the motor to get the correct C/G.

On a 2s 1800-2000 mah pack and a motor with those characteristics, the big 2-meter gets about 180 watts at full throttle, and will sustain about a 70 degree climb angle. On three cells with a 12-7 prop it pulls abotu 240 watts and goes vertical with considerable authority. There really isn't any need for any more watts than that on this airplane.

That's right, a lighter motor makes the plane HEAVIER. Note, that's a basic principle that applies to airplanes in general, not just this one. Any time you take weight out from the furthest forward place on the plane and then balance it with (a greater amount of) weight added further aft, the total weight goes UP.

If you're looking for another motor for the big 2-meter, besides the 5.5-6 ounce weight, look for something with about a 700-900 Kv, and that is comfortable with up to about 30 amps and 250 watts (for motors of this physical size, those last two numbers are not particularly challenging). Motor diameter should be 35 mm or less. We generally go to Radical RC for motors and batteries that size, and Esprit Models for Freudenthaler/Aeronaut props. The typical setup on 3 cells is a 12-7 or so, and on 2 cells I use a 14-9.5 prop. The Himax motor has a 5 mm shaft, and the plane's nose shape works out best wit a 42 mm spinner.
Oct 28, 2017, 10:36 PM
Pro Bro #1963
Thanks Don for your help!! In terms of finding/staying in lift, do you see an advantage/disadvantages between the 1.5M and 2M electrics?
So for the 2m plane, I basically need a 35mm motor that will mount behind the firewall and around a 700kv correct?
Thanks for the reply again!!
Oct 29, 2017, 07:33 PM
Registered User
I have the 2m Chrysalis electric and after having it set for several years I decide to dust it off and start flying it again.
I popped in a 3S pack, the biggest I could fit in which was a 2600mAh and attempted to fly it. That's just what it was...an attempt. It was so tail heavy and I couldn't for the life of me figure out why this was so as the last time I flew it , was fine.
What?????
Soooo, after checking the CG which indicated it was indeed tail heavy. But why now?
I could not get a very large battery behind the motor, which was a Hyperion 3020 series so I decide to do what someone else did with their hot liner, I used two 3S 1600mAh packs in parallel, one just at the leading edge and one installed behind the motor. It was still a tad tail heavy so I had to add 3- 1/2 oz stick on lead weights to the inside of the fuse just behind the motor.
The CG is now located at the center of the range. Unfortunately the weather up here in Northern Michigan has not been conducive to any flying so it will have to wait until next spring I suppose.
The only thing I can think of as to why the balance was off is this: I remember flying it using NiMh cells in the past which allowed the plane to balance correctly. Switching to Lipos created the balance problem. Now corrected.
Oct 31, 2017, 12:37 AM
Registered User
Don Stackhouse's Avatar
Note, we find the handling on that airplane is best with the C/G just ahead of the aft limit. Also, 2600 mah is way more than you need from a capacity standpoint.
Oct 31, 2017, 01:55 AM
Registered User
Since you need a certain amount of weight in the nose, how about an Astro Cobalt 035 with gears? I notice the motor is pretty cheap on eBay, though I didn't see any with the gears. Maybe some other brand of gears will fit. That might be lighter too. I've heard you can run up to 300 watts in these, though I don't think you'd need that much except maybe for ALES competition. Keep in mind that you'd need to use a brushed speed control. Or you can stretch the nose and use a cheap brushless.

We're spoiled by excess power today, IMHO. The E Allegro Lite climbed ok, if you kept it moving, on a direct drive, ferrite Speed 400 with a 6 inch prop. It weighed 22 ounces. I think that's about 50 watts. With a geared motor for a slower prop, it probably would have used considerably less. Plus that motor is much less efficient than a cobalt brushed or the brushless motors we usually use now. You could get up to winch height in a minute or two, I think.
Oct 31, 2017, 12:34 PM
Registered User
Don Stackhouse's Avatar
If all you want is something cheap, and you don't care about missile-like climb rates, the plane was originally designed for a Speed 600 can motor. Goldberg had their Speed 550 package they sold for their electric version of the Gentle Lady, and it seemed like there was one of those power packages hanging on the wall at almost every hobby shop. It was pathetic in Goldberg's Electra, but we figured if we could make our much more efficient airplane do OK with that system, it would fly even better on something else. This was all back in the days before outrunners became readily available.

The point of buying a kit is so you don't have to re-engineer a bunch of stuff to get it to work. The nose of the Chrysalis is designed for motors with a size and shape similar to the Speed 600 or the 35 mm outrunners, with a nose that is carefully designed for their typical behind-the-nose-bulkhead mounting style, and has carefully engineered cooling ducts designed around the typical inlets used by those motors. The totally different mounting and cooling arrangements of a geared Astro will throw all of that out the window, never mind the incredibly annoying dentist-drill scream of those gearboxes.
Oct 31, 2017, 03:18 PM
Registered User
Astro Flight gearboxes are some of the quietest boxes around save for a planetary. They use helical cut gears which are more efficient and much quieter than the straight gears other use.
Once you get a plane more than 15 feet from you you don't notice it. Other than the weight penalty from using an Astro Flight motor and box, they are some of the best brushed motors out there. Built like a tank and under rated.
also have in my arsenal a Mega Mini 7/ with a ringed gear box and a Robbe /Keller 50/5 brushed motor / gearbox. These particular gearboxes are engineered with the spur gear and a ring secondary gear where the actual gear teeth are on the inside of the ring. They're good for up to 700 Watts.
I will continue to use the Hyperion 3020 motor in the Chrysalis as it provides good solid performance and ...I had it in stock.
Too bad the weather up here has closed in with cold and rain, sometimes turning to .....s***!
The spoilers on this plane work very well and I found they don't have to go up very far to get results.
Oct 31, 2017, 10:32 PM
Pro Bro #1963
Don.......

I'm open to your suggestions.......
Would the 2M Chrysalis be "easier" for finding and staying in small thermals or would I be better suited for the 1.5M? I've got my mind made up on a Chrysalis, just need some help picking the size. I'm not a competition flyer, just wanting the best "bang for my buck" so to speak.
Thanks again!!!
Nov 01, 2017, 08:01 AM
Registered User
How about one of each. You should never go to the field with only one plane.
Nov 01, 2017, 09:09 AM
Pro Bro #1963
Trust me, if funds would allow, I'd CERTAINLY have at least 1 of each Lol!!!

Just want to get the size that best suits my conditions etc.
Nov 01, 2017, 05:18 PM
Registered User
Don Stackhouse's Avatar
One now and the other later.

For really low altitude lift, probably the 1.5 meter, but both are extremely good, the big 2-meter is unusually nimble for a plane that size. The big 2-meter is also better at higher altitudes, due to visibility, among other things.

My personal opinion, the best of the three is the Chrysalis Lite 2-meter F3-RES, the nimbleness and handling of the 1.5, also the ability to signal lift, but the performance (other than not quite as much penetration unless ballasted) as the big 2-meter. Available now as a sailplane, and Joe is finishing up the instructions for the powered version.

However, based on my understanding of your preferences, I'd say the 1.5 meter pod-and-boom electric would probably be the best to start with. Sooner or later, though, you will probably want to add at least some of the others.
Nov 01, 2017, 07:29 PM
Pro Bro #1963
Ok, thank you Sir.......

Now, I've got to finalize my choice. I appreciate the advice and input from each of you!
Nov 02, 2017, 11:45 AM
Wanted for breaking Ohm's Law
Dennis Sumner's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Stackhouse
One now and the other later.

For really low altitude lift, probably the 1.5 meter, but both are extremely good, the big 2-meter is unusually nimble for a plane that size. The big 2-meter is also better at higher altitudes, due to visibility, among other things.

My personal opinion, the best of the three is the Chrysalis Lite 2-meter F3-RES, the nimbleness and handling of the 1.5, also the ability to signal lift, but the performance (other than not quite as much penetration unless ballasted) as the big 2-meter. Available now as a sailplane, and Joe is finishing up the instructions for the powered version.

However, based on my understanding of your preferences, I'd say the 1.5 meter pod-and-boom electric would probably be the best to start with. Sooner or later, though, you will probably want to add at least some of the others.
Do you have plans to sell an electric 2m Chrysalis lite? From your website it only shows a glider version of the 2m pod type.

Thnx
Denny
Nov 02, 2017, 11:58 AM
Sagitta Fanboy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Sumner
Do you have plans to sell an electric 2m Chrysalis lite? From your website it only shows a glider version of the 2m pod type.

Thnx
Denny
DJA normally doesn't put the new kits on the site until they are actually available. They've said multiple times that an electric 2m Lite is due very soon.


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