FPV Slope Soaring Air to Air Video - Page 2 - RC Groups
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Oct 27, 2017, 03:05 PM
Registered User
fly2bob's Avatar
Watched the video. Know NOTHING about FPV, nice how they all talk to each other well.

Could you please provide links for the items in your setup?

Thanks,
Bob
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Oct 27, 2017, 04:10 PM
Piscine Promulgator
surfimp's Avatar
From my video description:

-----------

Setup:
I'm using Spektrum Focal DVR goggles (made by Fatshark) which feature a headtracking module that connects to the wireless trainer port on Spektrum AirWare radios (in my case, the DX6e).

On the plane, the Runcam Micro Swift 2 camera is mounted on a Fatshark pan-tilt-roll module. I removed the roll servo to save weight.

The video image is being broadcast through an ImmersionRC Tramp running at 25mW using a Pagoda antenna. This is more than sufficient for very clear video at the typical 200-400m distances we fly at this spot.

I recorded the video using the DVR feature of the goggles, also built-in. The image in the goggles is actually much better than what the DVR records.

The aircraft is a Radian (in case that wasn't clear from the video).

Overall, I'm extremely pleased with the setup. The Radian is really pleasant and easy to fly in the typical light lift conditions we have at this spot, perfect for learning FPV slope soaring. It's all very zen and relaxing... very nice.

-----------

Links, per your request:

Focal DVR goggles:
https://www.horizonhobby.com/focal-d...dset-spmvr2520
(You'll need to supply a micro SD card in order to record your video; one is not included with the goggles themselves)

Spektrum DX6e:
https://www.horizonhobby.com/dx6e-6c...-only-spmr6650
(Yes, IMHO the best radio on the market is a $150 Spektrum radio. LOL!)

Radian:
https://www.horizonhobby.com/radian-bnf-basic-efl4750

The Runcam Micro Swift 2 and other cameras are available from Runcam and (many) others:
http://shop.runcam.com/runcam-micro-swift-2/

Pan/Tilt/Roll mount:
https://www.horizonhobby.com/pan-til...ount-p-fsv1603

Tramp video transmitter:
https://www.immersionrc.com/fpv-prod...o-transmitter/

Pagoda antennas are available from many places and are very inexpensive (around $8-10 each)

I use a separate 350mAh 3S lipo to power the Tramp and camera. This battery is velcroed to the Radian's tailboom in a place that provides a counterbalance for the weight of the camera and VTX.

NOTE: To legally broadcast in the US using the above equipment, you need to have a HAM license.

-----------

The above setup is plug-and-play, meaning the camera can be plugged in directly to the Tramp VTX and powered off its 5V supply if you want. However, if you want to get your VTX's battery pack voltage displayed on the camera's OSD (which I highly recommend), then you'll need to power the camera directly from the VTX battery (or the Radian's battery, though it's generally recommended to have a separate power source for your camera and VTX, both for redundancy and to reduce electrical noise / interference in your video).

The goggles connect wirelessly to the radio, as far as I know this is one of the only wireless headtracking solutions currently on the market, and certainly the only wireless solution for Spektrum. Other radios - including Spektrum radios that do NOT feature a wireless trainer port - will require you to run a cable between your goggles and your radio's trainer port. This isn't that big of a deal, but wireless is really nice

The Radian carries the extra weight of the camera, pan and tilt mount, video transmitter, antenna and auxiliary battery with absolutely no problem. If anything, it penetrates better thanks to the greater weight. Obviously you can use any airframe; my next step is to migrate my headtracking setup to my Dream-Flight Ahi, to replace the fixed FPV camera on it currently.

Here's my fixed FPV camera on my Ahi - it just uses a small AIO camera/VTX that runs directly off the plane's receiver battery.

FPV VTPR slope aerobatics (3 min 28 sec)
Last edited by surfimp; Oct 27, 2017 at 04:35 PM.
Oct 27, 2017, 04:56 PM
Team Spektrum FPV
aaronredbaron's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by surfimp
And just to give some small "props" to VRflyer, the guy who inspired us all - whether we know it or not!

August 2006(!) - headtracking, goggles, the whole deal. OG!

https://vimeo.com/1305639
Man, we could have gone sloping together! I started flying FPV after watching THIS VIDEO when I lived in the Inland Empire. I started flying FPV with a slow stick at the Circle City RC field in Corona field in 2007. I flew my Carbon Bird all over southern california... it recently got upgraded with new Spektrum servos and receiver
Oct 27, 2017, 05:26 PM
Registered User
Daemon's Avatar
VRFlyer's Bromont golf course vid really sparked the modern era of fixed wing FPV. This
whole FPV section of RCG wouldn't exist without it (it started out with only one forum
called FPV piloting).
Others had done it before him but he was one of the first to put it all together
Goggles + head tracker + pan & tilt on an aircraft without a prop in front of the camera
and post a vid on one of the earliest free video sharing sites (I think his first vid was
actually on the now defunct Google Video). It was certainly the first viral FPV video.

My first FPV experience was back around 2003 and I had a fixed forward camera
on a large composite sailplane and my display was the screen on a Hi8 camcorder.
The fixed forward camera view was really almost impossible to use effectively
on the slope because the plane was always crabbing so I couldn't see where the
edge of the slope was and often would find myself well behind it. It was very
frustrating so I gave it up until VRFlyer's vid few years later, and then I realized I could
use a pan&tilt + HT to keep focused on the direction of travel even when the sailplane
was crabbing in a strong wind.
The gear went onto an EZ Glider with no motor and I flew that for over 3 years
and hundreds of hours. Was not uncommon to fly for 2-3 hours at a time.
The local paraglider pilots got to know me and the plane and would simply refer to
the plane by my name when discussing their flights. "Bob, and Jim and Ian came with us over to the towers"
"Ian climbed up in a thermal with the rest of the pack". "We chased Ian into a big thermal over Golden".. etc.
It took a long time and a lot of practice to get comfortable flying with them but we always had
an amicable relationship. Here's a video after I'd been flying with em for a couple years.
FPV - Mt. Zion - Paragliders/Hang gliders/Hawk (9 min 38 sec)

There's a ton more FPV slope and thermal flying videos in my Vimeo account.
I moved away from the EZG mainly because I wanted to carry an HD camera and at that
time that meant the likes of the original big heavy Hero HD. Theses days I could do
a Runcam Split or Runcam 2 on P&T and fly through the HD camera. I may yet get
back into FPV slermal flying more.
Last edited by Daemon; Oct 27, 2017 at 05:50 PM.
Oct 27, 2017, 05:31 PM
fly by night
BCSaltchucker's Avatar
VRFLyer one smart dude. I'd say he still is the all time master of scale-cockpit-FPV flying too
Oct 27, 2017, 05:56 PM
Piscine Promulgator
surfimp's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daemon
The gear went onto an EZ Glider with no motor and I flew that for over 3 years
and hundreds of hours. Was not uncommon to fly for 2-3 hours at a time.
I should also give a shoutout to Daemon, who generously answered a bunch of questions from me about FPV when I first got interested! It seemed really daunting at the time, as everything was much newer and there were so many different and seemingly compelling paths to pursue.

Those paths are still out there today, but for newbies the 5.8ghz path is at this point sort of the default and IMHO a very good place to start.

Honestly, I am not an electronics tinkerer, which is why I've really not gotten into headtracking previously despite having the desire to do so. I suspect I'm pretty similar to the core R/C demographic in that sense - "make it easy, and I'll buy in." I think we're at that point now, and the innovations that miniquads have helped introduce are already spreading out into fixed wing and other applications.

FPV is really great, it will never fully replace LOS flying for me (at least, I don't think it will), but I really enjoy it. And, best of all, we're on the cusp of practical / easy / affordable HD video. I can't wait to see what the next 10 years has in store!
Latest blog entry: Of Fish, France, FPV, and Fun!
Oct 27, 2017, 05:57 PM
AndyKunz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by surfimp
... (I really love AirWare, it "just works" for me - and I say that coming from a diehard MPX Profi 4000 background), ...
Steve,

The internals of AirWare are modeled after the same concept as the MPX "widgets." The user interface simply connects the inputs and outputs of the widgets in a way that makes it super simple to use, but super powerful for those who grasp the concepts.

Andy
Oct 27, 2017, 05:59 PM
Piscine Promulgator
surfimp's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronredbaron
Man, we could have gone sloping together! I started flying FPV after watching THIS VIDEO when I lived in the Inland Empire. I started flying FPV with a slow stick at the Circle City RC field in Corona field in 2007. I flew my Carbon Bird all over southern california... it recently got upgraded with new Spektrum servos and receiver
Bruh, we can still go sloping together. Come visit sometime! "Field testing" - that's what you guys call it, right?
Latest blog entry: Of Fish, France, FPV, and Fun!
Oct 27, 2017, 06:04 PM
Piscine Promulgator
surfimp's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyKunz
The internals of AirWare are modeled after the same concept as the MPX "widgets." The user interface simply connects the inputs and outputs of the widgets in a way that makes it super simple to use, but super powerful for those who grasp the concepts.
I know, I was super stoked when I got my DX6e and started playing around with it. I literally never even looked at a manual for the first six months I owned it!

Previously, I'd have a JR11x, and while that was a nice radio, it's HUUUGE for a non-tray radio and heavy and I just never learned to love it.

Prior to that, I'd flown a MPX Profi 4000 (huge even for a tray radio!) for years and while I loved it, even doing simple, easily-understood things took a long time, because you had to traverse so many different screens and menus. It wasn't bad, per se, but the AirWare UX is definitely an improvement. And I love the way my DX6e feels in my hands.

Just get those gimbals patented already, and throw them in a 9 or 12 channel (or 18, whatever!) and I'll be set
Latest blog entry: Of Fish, France, FPV, and Fun!
Oct 27, 2017, 06:06 PM
Team Spektrum FPV
aaronredbaron's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daemon
VRFlyer's Bromont golf course vid really sparked the modern era of fixed wing FPV. This
whole FPV section of RCG wouldn't exist without it (it started out with only one forum
called FPV piloting).
Others had done it before him but he was one of the first to put it all together
Goggles + head tracker + pan & tilt on an aircraft without a prop in front of the camera
and post a vid on one of the earliest free video sharing sites (I think his first vid was
actually on the now defunct Google Video). It was certainly the first viral FPV video.

My first FPV experience was back around 2003 and I had a fixed forward camera
on a large composite sailplane and my display was the screen on a Hi8 camcorder.
The fixed forward camera view was really almost impossible to use effectively
on the slope because the plane was always crabbing so I couldn't see where the
edge of the slope was and often would find myself well behind it. It was very
frustrating so I gave it up until VRFlyer's vid few years later, and then I realized I could
use a pan&tilt + HT to keep focused on the direction of travel even when the sailplane
was crabbing in a strong wind.
The gear went onto an EZ Glider with no motor and I flew that for over 3 years
and hundreds of hours. Was not uncommon to fly for 2-3 hours at a time.
The local paraglider pilots got to know me and the plane and would simply refer to
the plane by my name when discussing their flights. "Bob, and Jim and Ian came with us over to the towers"
"Ian climbed up in a thermal with the rest of the pack". "We chased Ian into a big thermal over Golden".. etc.
It took a long time and a lot of practice to get comfortable flying with them but we always had
an amicable relationship. Here's a video after I'd been flying with em for a couple years.
https://vimeo.com/15292845
There's a ton more FPV slope and thermal flying videos in my Vimeo account.
I moved away from the EZG mainly because I wanted to carry an HD camera and at that
time that meant the likes of the original big heavy Hero HD. Theses days I could do
a Runcam Split or Runcam 2 on P&T and fly through the HD camera. I may yet get
back into FPV slermal flying more.
Epic stuff here, great flying! there are a lot of old platforms we played with back in the day that would be pretty amazing with a runcam split or similar P &T setup. My Icon, for example, off the water... um... yes!!
Oct 27, 2017, 06:26 PM
Registered User
Daemon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by surfimp
I know, I was super stoked when I got my DX6e and started playing around with it. I literally never even looked at a manual for the first six months I owned it!

Previously, I'd have a JR11x, and while that was a nice radio, it's HUUUGE for a non-tray radio and heavy and I just never learned to love it.

Prior to that, I'd flown a MPX Profi 4000 (huge even for a tray radio!) for years and while I loved it, even doing simple, easily-understood things took a long time, because you had to traverse so many different screens and menus. It wasn't bad, per se, but the AirWare UX is definitely an improvement. And I love the way my DX6e feels in my hands.

Just get those gimbals patented already, and throw them in a 9 or 12 channel (or 18, whatever!) and I'll be set
Doubt you'll get many (any) converts to Spektrum around here.

Would be hard for anything to put a dent in the OpenTx ecosystem
that most FPV pilots use on radios like the FrSky X9D Taranis, QX7, Horus X12S, etc.
They (like most Tx's lacks the ability to turn centering spring on and off on the fly) but
other than that, you can pretty much do *anything* with OpenTx that any other Tx
programming can do, and then some. I have a model on my Taranis that allows me to
fly two full 8ch FPV aircraft at the same time (FPV pilotted aerial video/control relay +
FPV piloted quad or fixed wing through the relay) and it was surprisingly easy to set up.
For my biggest, seldom flown DS planes I have programs where I can instantly change the
elevator and aileron rates on the fly with knobs so that I don't have to land to tweak them.
(I may only get one chance to fly a 130in 40lb sailplane)
Can integrate programming logic with telemetry and head trackers and pass full
control through trainer port (which can be any type of device that outputs CPPM).
Can install 6 position pots and HAL sensor gimbals, and replacement parts for every
component of the Tx are available.
These days there are custom lua scripts that run on the Tx that allow it to do PID programming
of Betaflight flight controllers and set the 5.8Ghz video Tx channel and power levels and so forth.

Everyone else is playing catch-up (if they're trying at all), while FrSky and OpenTx keep
innovating at full speed ahead.
Oct 27, 2017, 06:36 PM
Registered User
Daemon's Avatar
BTW, I recently picked up a used RTF 3m DAW KA-6E. I had one I started many years
ago with the intention of putting a dual FPV rig on (two cameras, both on their own P&T,
each controlled by separate head trackers). The build stalled out and I never got back to it
so when I saw one come up used locally, I jumped on it. Intention is to set it up for flying
during Soar Utah event and just cruise around giving passengers rides
or even let em control it.
Oct 27, 2017, 06:39 PM
Piscine Promulgator
surfimp's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daemon
Doubt you'll get many (any) converts to Spektrum around here.

Would be hard for anything to put a dent in the OpenTx ecosystem
that most FPV pilots use on radios like the FrSky X9D Taranis, QX7, Horus X12S, etc.
They (like most Tx's lacks the ability to turn centering spring on and off on the fly) but
other than that, you can pretty much do *anything* with OpenTx that any other Tx
programming can do, and then some. I have a model on my Taranis that allows me to
fly two full 8ch FPV aircraft at the same time (FPV pilotted aerial video/control relay +
FPV piloted quad or fixed wing through the relay) and it was surprisingly easy to set up.
For my biggest, seldom flown DS planes I have programs where I can instantly change the
elevator and aileron rates on the fly with knobs so that I don't have to land to tweak them.
(I may only get one chance to fly a 130in 40lb sailplane)
Can integrate programming logic with telemetry and head trackers and pass full
control through trainer port (which can be any type of device that outputs CPPM).
Can install 6 position pots and HAL sensor gimbals, and replacement parts for every
component of the Tx are available.
These days there are custom lua scripts that run on the Tx that allow it to do PID programming
of Betaflight flight controllers and set the 5.8Ghz video Tx channel and power levels and so forth.

Everyone else is playing catch-up (if they're trying at all), while FrSky and OpenTx keep
innovating at full speed ahead.
And all of that is rad, and once upon a time, I thought I needed stuff like that.

As it turns out, between career, family and other commitments, I want stuff that is easy to use and lets me simply enjoy my hobby. I'm that mainstream user that's smack in the middle of Horizon's target demographic, and I'm OK with that.

Honestly, even if HH is playing catch-up with FPV, the truth is that that market has blown up and is only going to continue to do so.

Spektrum coming out with products like these isn't about converting existing early-adopters who are surely already Taranis & OpenTx users, it's about putting out a signal about FPV to the wider R/C community... a sort of "Come on in, water's fine!" to all the middling folks like me, who've been hanging back until FPV was simply easier / more affordable / etc.

For example, there's nothing stopping a dedicated modeler from finding equipment, airframes, & etc to do almost anything they want, be it fixed wing, quad or otherwise. And yet HH's BNF stuff continues to sell like hotcakes, because they make an enjoyable RC aircraft experience accessible, affordable and easy. And they offer a big dealer network and very good support.

Again, I don't mean to sound like a fanboy, but I do realize I'm sort of the center of their bullseye in terms of a consumer demographic. I keep coming back to their products and am very rarely disappointed.
Latest blog entry: Of Fish, France, FPV, and Fun!
Oct 27, 2017, 06:44 PM
Piscine Promulgator
surfimp's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daemon
BTW, I recently picked up a used RTF 3m DAW KA-6E. I had one I started many years
ago with the intention of putting a dual FPV rig on (two cameras, both on their own P&T,
each controlled by separate head trackers). The build stalled out and I never got back to it
so when I saw one come up used locally, I jumped on it. Intention is to set it up for flying
during Soar Utah event and just cruise around giving passengers rides
or even let em control it.
This is such a cool idea - in fact, when I got my HAM back in 2007, it was around the intention of learning about this technology as a means towards offering air tours that would use something similar, an airframe with multiple cameras on P&T mounts, which would allow people on the ground to have an aerial experience very akin to taking a true air tour, just at much lower cost.

I think this is still a good idea and I'm sure someone out there is working on it now! With HD video, it could really be great.

However my second child was also born in 2007 and my own life trajectory and interests were such that my desire and available time for tinkering with this stuff was small. But it's still a good idea, and if anyone can pull it off, it's definitely you, Ian!

Looking forward to the vids
Latest blog entry: Of Fish, France, FPV, and Fun!
Oct 27, 2017, 06:55 PM
Team Spektrum FPV
aaronredbaron's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daemon
Doubt you'll get many (any) converts to Spektrum around here.

Would be hard for anything to put a dent in the OpenTx ecosystem
that most FPV pilots use on radios like the FrSky X9D Taranis, QX7, Horus X12S, etc.
They (like most Tx's lacks the ability to turn centering spring on and off on the fly) but
other than that, you can pretty much do *anything* with OpenTx that any other Tx
programming can do, and then some. I have a model on my Taranis that allows me to
fly two full 8ch FPV aircraft at the same time (FPV pilotted aerial video/control relay +
FPV piloted quad or fixed wing through the relay) and it was surprisingly easy to set up.
For my biggest, seldom flown DS planes I have programs where I can instantly change the
elevator and aileron rates on the fly with knobs so that I don't have to land to tweak them.
(I may only get one chance to fly a 130in 40lb sailplane)
Can integrate programming logic with telemetry and head trackers and pass full
control through trainer port (which can be any type of device that outputs CPPM).
Can install 6 position pots and HAL sensor gimbals, and replacement parts for every
component of the Tx are available.
These days there are custom lua scripts that run on the Tx that allow it to do PID programming
of Betaflight flight controllers and set the 5.8Ghz video Tx channel and power levels and so forth.

Everyone else is playing catch-up (if they're trying at all), while FrSky and OpenTx keep
innovating at full speed ahead.
This is all great stuff, and I like to tinker as much as the next guy. But don't think the Spektrum development team at Horizon is just sitting on their hind ends, these folks are working hard week in and week out to raise the bar. Andy Kunz, and Miguel Alvarez, for example, are among many engineers at Horizon who just want to make the best products possible. They may not be making the dual quad 16 ch setup of your dreams, but its an ever changing and improving technology, and the folks at Horizon aren't going to give up just because there are good competitive products on the market. To be fair I wasn't flying Spektrum when I moved here five and half years ago from Oregon, but sometimes getting involved is how you make a difference, you know? And, I'd like to add I've been flying FPV these past 5 years on Spektrum with great success.

Keep up the good work, and great flying, we are all trying to move the hobby forward

Note: Full disclaimer, I work at Horizon. I was in product development at one time, now I work on the manuals team.


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