Need help to Identify for a rebuild - RC Groups
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Oct 22, 2017, 10:29 AM
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Need help to Identify for a rebuild


Hi all, At best we can figure this was built in 1957 by a man named Richard H. Dimon of Wellsburg, N.Y. at the time. It's been hanging in a basement for 58 years. It was a glow engine and I want to convert it to electric and restore it.

I know absolutely zero of the terminology about planes other than it has wings and the wing is 57" long. Being a modeler for 35yrs. I feel more than confident I can fab, build or machine anything I need to get it done by spring of next year. I don't know the size of the original engine so I don't know what size electric motor or ESC and Li-Po to buy without over powering the plane.

If someone could help me Identify this and any Information about it would be greatly appreciated. Mods, If I've put this in a wrong tread please move it.
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Oct 22, 2017, 08:00 PM
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Sky Squire


It looks like a Sky Squire, I had one in the 60's and it was powered by a .40. I still have the original magazine article.
Oct 22, 2017, 09:55 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by cobra72
It looks like a Sky Squire, I had one in the 60's and it was powered by a .40. I still have the original magazine article.

Thank you sir, I'd love to read about the article and will Google that. This is a time sensitive build for me.
Oct 23, 2017, 02:06 AM
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Sky Squire


I will hunt the magazine up tomorrow and copy the article.
Oct 23, 2017, 06:13 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Snowdon
Hi all, At best we can figure this was built in 1957 by a man named Richard H. Dimon of Wellsburg, N.Y. at the time. It's been hanging in a basement for 58 years. It was a glow engine and I want to convert it to electric and restore it.
Very cool. I'm the biggest fan in the world of keeping old anything going. I've done a Sig Senior, another smaller high wing trainer about like the one you have, and right now am working on a 30 year old 1/4 scale Piper Cub. Yeah it's a LOT of work but I like building as much as flying.

Quote:
I know absolutely zero of the terminology about planes
No problem. A potential downside is that ancient glue can get brittle. If you can flex things a little bit and nothing cracks it should be fine.

You have a spare wing and h-stab (horizontal stabiliser) but at a glance the original looks good. Covering the bare wing is a whooole 'nother skill set that you don't want to learn/do if you don't have to.

That loose h-stab looks like it broke off but you'll be able to figure out how to reglue it.

First you need to clean-clean-clean it with windex or other ammonia cleaner. That cowl area is totally crusted over and bugly. It should clean up just fine.

Quote:
I feel more than confident I can fab, build or machine anything...
I had to chuckle (in a friendly way) when I saw the word machine. With model planes the secret is always 'lighter is better.' That means you'll use a lot of tape and CA glue. Anything structural is better to be built up with wood either balsa or aircraft plywood.

LOOK FOR NYLON PARTS ANYWHERE IN THE PLANE!! That's the other thing that an go bad, they get dry and brittle with age. For example the control horns are the little pits sticking out of the elevator, rudder and ailerons. They connect control rods to servos, and might be nylon. Give them a pretty good twist. If it feels flexible it's probably OK. If it snaps better to do that on the ground than in flight. Not kidding. Don't be afraid to test strength of parts because anything can be rebuilt. Better than taking home a pile of toothpicks in a trash bag.

Quote:
I don't know the size of the original engine...
It doesn't matter. To convert to electric the motor will be determined by the AUW (All Up Weight) of the plane.

Pull out the gas tank and hoses if anything is still in there.

If they're in there, pull out the servos and hang on to them if you like but the DEFINITELY need to be changed.

It's often a bitch to mount batteries, because the original design wasn't intended for them. Still doable with imagination. Batteries will typically need to be mounted roughly where the gas tank was, or a little behind. You may be able to get in there through the firewall, or you may need to cut a hole in the botto of the cowl area.

You'll need to mount a switch in the side of the cabin area. Or there may be a switch already there that you should replace.

The AUW determines the size of the motor needed. Make a list of the weights of all the parts you have now, and add them up.

With the plane sitting flat, measure the distance from the ground to the center of where the old motor was. That, minus about 2", will determine the max size prop that will fit.

The AUW plus max prop size will determine a range of motors available.

Don't worry about overpowering it! Not enough power is MUCH more hazardous than too much!!

After you have those numbers either I or someone else will let you know what motors are available.

You'll need to hack out a lot of wood in the motor mount area to mount an electric motor. It's be nicest to be able to leave the sides of the cowl area intact, for appearance sake, but depending on the motor it may not fit. Probably will but get used to to the idea now that you may need to bob off the whole nose.

All airplanes have right thrust and down thrust. Meaning the motor isn't square to the fuse (fuselage) but is angle down and to the right. Look at it and you'll see what I mean. On the plus side you'll be able to directly mount the motor to the firewall because those angles are built into the design.

====

OK, different topic, how to get the thing off the ground SAFELY.

About where to fly it. Do you have any local friends into RC? A plane this big is NOT a good idea to fly at local parks, you need a real flying field.

If you intend to fly this yourself I strongly recommend joining the AMA Academy of Model Aeronautics. For $55/year you get a magazine, permission to fly as a guest at any AMA field, and most importantly $500,000 insurance. If you fly within the rules the insurance is valid. If you don't have AMA your homeowners insurance may cover accidents. If you have nothing and put it through the windshield of a car it's on your dime.

You also need to do a free registration at faa.gov and get a registration number that must be attached to the plane.

If you don't know anyone go to modelaircraft.org and see Members and Clubs - Club Services - Find a Club. Last time I used it the search features were extremely sucky but you will eventually be able to wade through things.

Clubs usually have membership fees, and the amounts are all very different.

Again for emphasis you do NOT want to fly this at a local park or schoolyard -- it's too big.

You do NOT want to fly this yourself for the first time!!!!!!! Repeat, NOT not not. You can't do it.

The absolute best would be to bring this plane as it is right now to a local field and ask for expert opinions. They can tell you mostly what I've written. If anyone tells you anything different, they're wrong.

The absolute best is to do the rebuild, then have an expert look it over, tell you what's wrong with it, and make you make those fixes. Then have the expert fly it FIRST.

If you're lucky you'll find someone who can train you to fly it, but again I can't emphasis enough that you can't do that alone. My club gets a couple of new people a month and they have a whole training program from ground school through first flight through solo, and *then* newbies have permission to fly. It's not hard to do!! But it's not instinctive the way it is for birds and gnats.

You clearly have the mechanical skills to do the rebuild. With luck you'll find a field of good guys to help you out and not a clique that doesn't like newbies.

Good luck -- flying is a billion tons of fun.
Oct 24, 2017, 11:06 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbarchuk
Very cool. I'm the biggest fan in the world of keeping old anything going. I've done a Sig Senior, another smaller high wing trainer about like the one you have, and right now am working on a 30 year old 1/4 scale Piper Cub. Yeah it's a LOT of work but I like building as much as flying.



No problem. A potential downside is that ancient glue can get brittle. If you can flex things a little bit and nothing cracks it should be fine.

You have a spare wing and h-stab (horizontal stabiliser) but at a glance the original looks good. Covering the bare wing is a whooole 'nother skill set that you don't want to learn/do if you don't have to.

That loose h-stab looks like it broke off but you'll be able to figure out how to reglue it.

First you need to clean-clean-clean it with windex or other ammonia cleaner. That cowl area is totally crusted over and bugly. It should clean up just fine.



I had to chuckle (in a friendly way) when I saw the word machine. With model planes the secret is always 'lighter is better.' That means you'll use a lot of tape and CA glue. Anything structural is better to be built up with wood either balsa or aircraft plywood.

LOOK FOR NYLON PARTS ANYWHERE IN THE PLANE!! That's the other thing that an go bad, they get dry and brittle with age. For example the control horns are the little pits sticking out of the elevator, rudder and ailerons. They connect control rods to servos, and might be nylon. Give them a pretty good twist. If it feels flexible it's probably OK. If it snaps better to do that on the ground than in flight. Not kidding. Don't be afraid to test strength of parts because anything can be rebuilt. Better than taking home a pile of toothpicks in a trash bag.



It doesn't matter. To convert to electric the motor will be determined by the AUW (All Up Weight) of the plane.

Pull out the gas tank and hoses if anything is still in there.

If they're in there, pull out the servos and hang on to them if you like but the DEFINITELY need to be changed.

It's often a bitch to mount batteries, because the original design wasn't intended for them. Still doable with imagination. Batteries will typically need to be mounted roughly where the gas tank was, or a little behind. You may be able to get in there through the firewall, or you may need to cut a hole in the botto of the cowl area.

You'll need to mount a switch in the side of the cabin area. Or there may be a switch already there that you should replace.

The AUW determines the size of the motor needed. Make a list of the weights of all the parts you have now, and add them up.

With the plane sitting flat, measure the distance from the ground to the center of where the old motor was. That, minus about 2", will determine the max size prop that will fit.

The AUW plus max prop size will determine a range of motors available.

Don't worry about overpowering it! Not enough power is MUCH more hazardous than too much!!

After you have those numbers either I or someone else will let you know what motors are available.

You'll need to hack out a lot of wood in the motor mount area to mount an electric motor. It's be nicest to be able to leave the sides of the cowl area intact, for appearance sake, but depending on the motor it may not fit. Probably will but get used to to the idea now that you may need to bob off the whole nose.

All airplanes have right thrust and down thrust. Meaning the motor isn't square to the fuse (fuselage) but is angle down and to the right. Look at it and you'll see what I mean. On the plus side you'll be able to directly mount the motor to the firewall because those angles are built into the design.

====

OK, different topic, how to get the thing off the ground SAFELY.

About where to fly it. Do you have any local friends into RC? A plane this big is NOT a good idea to fly at local parks, you need a real flying field.

If you intend to fly this yourself I strongly recommend joining the AMA Academy of Model Aeronautics. For $55/year you get a magazine, permission to fly as a guest at any AMA field, and most importantly $500,000 insurance. If you fly within the rules the insurance is valid. If you don't have AMA your homeowners insurance may cover accidents. If you have nothing and put it through the windshield of a car it's on your dime.

You also need to do a free registration at faa.gov and get a registration number that must be attached to the plane.

If you don't know anyone go to modelaircraft.org and see Members and Clubs - Club Services - Find a Club. Last time I used it the search features were extremely sucky but you will eventually be able to wade through things.

Clubs usually have membership fees, and the amounts are all very different.

Again for emphasis you do NOT want to fly this at a local park or schoolyard -- it's too big.

You do NOT want to fly this yourself for the first time!!!!!!! Repeat, NOT not not. You can't do it.

The absolute best would be to bring this plane as it is right now to a local field and ask for expert opinions. They can tell you mostly what I've written. If anyone tells you anything different, they're wrong.

The absolute best is to do the rebuild, then have an expert look it over, tell you what's wrong with it, and make you make those fixes. Then have the expert fly it FIRST.

If you're lucky you'll find someone who can train you to fly it, but again I can't emphasis enough that you can't do that alone. My club gets a couple of new people a month and they have a whole training program from ground school through first flight through solo, and *then* newbies have permission to fly. It's not hard to do!! But it's not instinctive the way it is for birds and gnats.

You clearly have the mechanical skills to do the rebuild. With luck you'll find a field of good guys to help you out and not a clique that doesn't like newbies.

Good luck -- flying is a billion tons of fun.
What great advice and a great read for the new guy's. I understand the rules, law and Insurance. I won't be the one to take this plane up for the first time I promise you! I need help on the build!
Oct 24, 2017, 11:38 PM
Registered User
Man! I hope I can get some help and not get beat down so bad on the next reply.
I've read all the articles I can find and it sounds like the 57" Sky Squire was a popular plane in it's day, and even the scaled down ones. I'm stoked Richard's Grandson gave it to me knowing I'll throw an open check book at it to restore it and have fun doing it. From what I can see so far, CG is not a percentage like a boat but center line of the wing or the thickest part at best I can see from the plans I can blow up and able to read? Please put me on the right track for this as I want to hit it perfect!

I do have a club 15mins from my house but I don't have years to pick their brains for this build. Mike told me to start here. I need some help! I'll start with a wish list. Any and all pros & cons would be greatly appreciated for this build.

I'm leaning towards the Monokote for the cover and don't mind buying a few rolls cause I'm sure I'll screw it up figuring it out. I just don't like seeing the beams threw it. Any Ideas?

I'm looking at the Poly-fiber to, just not sure....I was a nerves wreck pulling the old cloth off.

A motor ESC and battery combo to keep it at weight but not over power the wings or rubber bands. The best propeller for the job and the noise cone and hardware?...sorry I don't know the terminology. To see those components will tell me a lot to fab new bulk heads and nose for a clean look.

I see two servos for this but don't know what size. I have two Hitec HS303 on the shelf, I just don't know how much pressure wind puts on them blades, can't be much with a tiny rod running back there. The Radio and receiver, not cheap but just for this plane? Part numbers or a phone number for a one stop shopping deal would be great!

Looking ahead at an un-answered question. The glow engine had all the air it needed for cooling, how much air does electric and the ESC need for a plane? I can't pull water in to cool it...I won't be posting five million shots of the rebuild, maybe some money shots to help someone pull it off the shelf and restore it. Richard has had a couple strokes and short term memory is gone for the most part. He does perk up when talking or hearing someone talk about his planes. My goal is to have a power point or CD done by spring with the rebuild as most of his time is sitting. Back to sanding for me at this point...
Oct 25, 2017, 12:03 PM
Registered User
Jbarchuk, I have to apologize. I blew threw the read and got stuck on all the legal part and didn't pay attention to some great advice for the build. Most of the legal stuff I know but not all as you explained. I don't plan on breaking any laws. The plane is gutted and ready to go back together. I want to do it all even the cover. Again I'm sorry. I'll get all the weights together and get back here.
Oct 25, 2017, 11:46 PM
Registered User
What you see here is 2lbs 3.3oz All of the fuel and oil soaked wood and busted up parts is all I have to weigh. With some clean up should be ready for new construction, with some more sanding. I haven't gone after removing the old axles yet just to keep it up some what for some sanding and Inspection. I won't be pilling a big gob of whatever it is holding them down when I fab up the new set. The noise wheel has the same stuff pinning it in place on the old bulk head. I want it steer able with the rear on the same servo just to trick it out some. If that's a bad Idea for this model, please step up to the plate. I don't know anything about cross wind a landing a plane.

Until I see every single piece of what it takes for flight, right down to a .065 wood dowel to put the rear hinges for the flaps or what ever they're called back on and able to move some things around and ready to hit the scale for CG right down to the weight of the rubber bands. I can't let my mind go to crazy on composites yet and keep the old school look.

jbarchuk, I dug deep on your reply today& tonight and came up with the bulk head in the frame is dead money square with the nose. I spin some big props on boats and big tires on cars. The glow engine mount had to have had the off set. No worries though, I'm planning on adjustability with the new mount (A good starting point to bring it back down would be awesome) to start anything could change the numbers during a good shake down.

I need some help here on all the above listed...Back to sanding for me...
Oct 27, 2017, 03:23 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Snowdon
Jbarchuk, I have to apologize. I blew threw the read and got stuck on all the legal part ...
No problem. You were also effusive with the 'great advice' stuff so I knew I was getting important points across.. I know I come across a little strong with the safety stuff, but that's because I've seen toooo many 'unintended startups' and I'm a safety freak. The analogy I use is that an electric plane is a grenade. Plugging in the battery is pulling the pin. The only thing that keeps it from exploding (until you want it to) is you left thumb holding the throttle off, and a couple of transistors in the Tx and Rx.

I made one mistake thinking you had a spare uncovered wing. Then I looked closer and saw bits of the fuse that were stripped. That's a TON of work but compared to the condition of the dirty covering will be worth the effort.

I made another mistake thinking it was a 4 channel plane with ailerons. Then I noticed that the wings didn't look like they had mounting points for ailerons, and there were no loose ailerons in the pics. That means it's a 3ch plane with throttle, elevator and rudder. It's more of a a trainer, which is good. The other thing that identifies it as a 'docile' plane is the relative areas of the rudder to the v-stab, and the elevator to the h-stab. With an aerobatic plane the moving surfaces can be equal to larger than the fixed surfaces. This plane will be a nice gentle flyer yet capable of some simple aerobatics..

That's great that you have a local field!!! But about the 'but I don't have years to pick their brains' thing, that won't happen. With the plane in its raw state before you stripped it, yes, it would take longer for an expert to describe and explain your options. Once it's rebuilt though a 'preflight review' takes literally 10 minutes. These are details such as is the linkage tight, are the tail surfaces straight, flat and square, do they have enough travel.

Quote:
From what I can see so far, CG is not a percentage like a boat but center line of the wing or the thickest part...
CG actually is usually measured as a % of the chord at the wing root. (Chord is the length from LE (leading edge) to the TE (trailing edge.)) (Root is where the wing attaches to the fuse.) CG -can- be anywhere from 10% to 40% depending on a particular design. However with this fairly simple design the best starting point is 33%. If you can find a copy of the original plans (or if someone else knows) it might vary a few points either way. But the recommended CG is only that, a 'good starting point'. Even two identical planes can turn out to have different CGs. The One True CG is determined only in flight. That's why it's strongly recommended (and you've already said that you won't do the first flight) that an expert do that first flight. The reason is that the common aphorism is 'a nose heavy plane flies poorly -- a tail heavy plane flies only once.' *If* it turns out to be severely tail heavy it takes an expert to get is safely back down to the ground, where adjustments can be made. Once the CG and trims are set right it'll be a pussy cat.

Quote:
I'm leaning towards the Monokote for the cover and don't mind buying a few rolls cause I'm sure I'll screw it up figuring it out. I just don't like seeing the beams threw it. Any Ideas?

I'm looking at the Poly-fiber to, just not sure.
A darker color, in the air, translucency is almost invisible.

The advantage of Monokote is that it's very light and strong. Poly-fiber I don't know about. The 1/4 scale Piper that I'm doing, I've been told is Silkspan. It has a bit of a fabric texture to it but that effect is invisible only a few feet away. By poking at it I can tell it's -very- strong. It was also painted. A lot of the paint has worn off so it's not a perfectly uniform color.

(If you have to do any painting on uncovered areas, don't worry too much about matching colors exactly-exactly. Even FS (full scale) planes can vary slightly, for example the difference between a molded fiberglass or painted wood part or a fabric covered part.)

Watch a few vids about covering. I've only ever done patches not a whole plane. What I've heard is that the usual difficult point is that if the -wing- isn't done properly it can come out -twisted- which wrecks alignment which wrecks flight. (It'll want to always roll one way or the other depending on which way the twist goes.) I've heard a few experts talk about covering. There's a particular technique to where the covering application and shrinking starts, and how to proceed. If you've got the ability to strip the old covering off without destroying anything you've definitely got the ability to -learn- the skill. One thing I suggest is that you practice it first on something that's not the real plane. Maybe glue up a few pieces of balsa stick to make a square with a rib or two in to that looks somewhat like the wing. Not an aileron shape just a flat square. (Though much smaller.) It's -not- a good idea to try a new tool or technique on the final intended part, always practice on scrap first.

Quote:
A motor ESC and battery combo to keep it at weight but not over power the wings or rubber bands.
When I do a plane of totally unknown final weight, I don't even pick the motor/prop till it's nearly completely done.

The usual stat I've read is that in a *heavy* turn or loop the effective weight can be upwards of 10x the AUW weight. Meaning if you end up with a 4# plane the max weight with heavy aerobatics could be up to 40#. But you'd be surprised how strong those rubber bands are!! Further, this plane -can't- do heavy aerobatics. You'll be able to get a gauge on that after it's assembled. Meaning you build it all, mount the wing, and then pull up on the wing trying to stretch the rubber bands. I -guarantee- that with 4 or 5 on each side you'll be pulling hard enough to nearly break the wing itself before the rubber bands start to lift.

Example. My lightest Slow Stick weighs 18oz. With docile flight it -could- fly with literally 1 rubber band on each side! But I fly it bat-outta-hell style so it definitely needs 2. However if a rubber band were to break in flight (and that has happened) that'd leave only one which is definitely not enough, so I use 3.

Rubber bands deteriorate in sunlight. A few people are mega-anal and change all the rubber bands for each day's flying. [sigh] Yes they're cheap (and cheap insurance is good) but that's waaaay overkill. The thing to do is as you're assembling it for a day's flying give them all a good stretch. If they feel 'too stretchy' then toss it. Also as you're taking the plane apart if any feel suspect then toss them.

Oh BTW I'm speaking about the typical #64 rubber bands which are about 3/8" wide. They're not long enough to reach all the way across the wing (12" chord) so I link two together. You may have other available locally that are longer and don't need to be linked. I've seen ppl use much narrower ones that need about 6 on each side, a dozen total. That's an annoying amount of time to assemble and disassemble so I stick with the wider shorter ones even though they have to be linked.

Funniest instance I ever had was assembling the wing, and a couple of rubber bands broke right on the bench. Then I was taxiing out and I saw another break. Brought it back and changed it. Then when after landing I found -another- had broken. LOL!!! I tossed them *all* right there. LOL!!! But as I said I always had 1 more than necessary so it was no real hazard.

Quote:
The best propeller for the job and the noise cone and hardware?
The nose cone is called a spinner, because that's what it does. They're really totally unnecessary but look really cool so I try to always have one on my nicer planes.

Youl'l find two kinds of spinners. There are two main parts, the front curved nose part, and a backplate. The backplate is mounted behind the prop, and the spinner is mounted to the backplate with the prop between those two parts. The two kinds are plastic or aluminum backplate. The aluminum cost a little more but are much more true/accurate. I forget which brands make which type but you'll know them when you see them.

(I keep flipping back to previous messages to find more topics. )

Quote:
I have two Hitec HS303
If they're new they're fine. I would not risk using the old servos. For average flight the typical rule is to use servos with a strength that equals the weight of the plane. Looking them up they say 49oz.. Now normally that's considerably less then the 4-5# that this plane might end up with. HOWEVER being a docile not-aerobatic plane the 2.5# servos are perfectly OK, especially that they're on the tail surfaces.

Quote:
...can't be much with a tiny rod running back there
Exactly. This plane wasn't designed to create a lot of stress. It's very docile.

Quote:
The glow engine had all the air it needed for cooling, how much air does electric and the ESC need for a plane?
Good Q. You need air inlet, and air outlet.

Do a search in this 'conversion' forum for pics of motor mounts. There are maaaany different ways to do this. The fastest/easiest/cheapest/lightest is a few aluminum standoffs. The standoffs take up only a very small surface area of the firewall, and you'd typically drill a few extra holes in the firewall. Don't worry about weakening the firewall because this is a light/docile plane.

The outlet, usually we cut out one panel of covering on the bottom side of the plane somewhere behind the cockpit area.

The usual recommendation is that the outlet be at least 5x the size of the inlet. But don't overthink this!! This is a low power setup and you're not doing a lot of heavy throttle. The -pros- (meaning the factory paid folks) go nutso with measuring inlet and outlet areas but that's -not- necessary with a casual grade plane. Then they go nutso with baffles and plates inside the fuse to 'steer' the airflow to hit the ESC. This air inlet/outlet stuff is the kind of thing an expert doing a review would look at.

Quote:
I haven't gone after removing the old axles yet...
You probably shouldn't need to. It's piano wire and probably the most durable single piece in the whole plane. Sand it and you'll get down to excellent solid metal.

One thing that surprised me was that you managed to remove the firewall!! That almost should -not- be possible! It's a critical assembly point and should be verrry difficult to remove!! Did it come out easily? Does it look like the original assembly was epoxy, or white glue? Maybe the fuel attacked it enough over the years to weaken it. Very surprising.

Quote:
The noise wheel has the same stuff pinning it in place on the old bulk head. I want it steer able with the rear on the same servo just to trick it out some. If that's a bad Idea for this model, please step up to the plate.
I've personally never seen a tricycle plane without nose wheel steering but there may have been reasons for it back in the day. Yes, typically it steers off the rudder servo. Maybe they left that out because it was a frill and not truly necessary. It does make ground handling muuuuch easier (taxiing it back to the pit) rather than walking out to get it. But it is a little picky getting it set up straight and maybe though to be not worth the effort.

Side note, historical info, the first RC panes had -one- channel, the -rudder-. It was called 'pulse' RC. There was one button. Hit the button and it steered left, hit it again and it came back to center, hit it again and it steered right, hit it again and back to center. So after launching you had to keep track of what the last button push did, and then think about how many pushes it took to make it do something else either straight or the other direction. It flew till the gas ran out. The elevator was set in a fixed position to go up under power and back down after the motor stopped. There were other tricks too such as fuses that when they burnt out would release a catch or spring the move the elevator kill the throttle. A LOT of airplanes were lost! This was VERY primitive stuff compared to what we have now!!!

Quote:
a .065 wood dowel to put the rear hinges for the flaps or what ever
Could you please take a few close up pics of the tail parts to see what's left? There are a few different kinds of hinges that could be in there.

Also two pics from the top, close in by the cockpit. One angled forward to where the gas tank used to be (and where the battery will be,) and another towards the back just to see what's there.

Is the area where the servos mount still intact? And do the new servos fit in the spaces where they mount?

BTW if you have any fastenings that screwed into wood, and the threads stripped out, what you do is fill the hole with CA and drill a new hole the right size to cut new threads.

Quote:
hit the scale for CG right down to the weight of the rubber bands.
The rubber bands mount pretty much directly -over- the CG, so adding or removing them has almost no -effect- on the CG. They add a couple grams of weight and are almost 'invisible' to the thrust/weight aspects.

Quote:
the bulk head in the frame is dead money square with the nose
OK so that was 'older school' than is usual now where the thrust angles are built into the design. My three conversions are in the 20-30 year old range and they all have angles built in.

You don't need to design anything adjustable. The usual way it's done with the standoff motor mounts is to add washers to push the motor in different directions. One it's flight tested and changes are made (add/remove washers if necessary) it stays that way forever.

Best would be to find a copy of the original plans that have angles. Or someone with a plane could measure what theirs has. With a docile plane it's not a super critical factor.

Quote:
I spin some big props on boats...
Just curious, do boats also use thrust angles? Up/down I'd guess they do to hit planes properly, but do they also use left/right?

Quote:
Back to sanding for me...
Except for covering you've already done the bulk of the hard work. The rest of it is adding bits and pieces to the fuse. Aileron servos don't exist so that's a lot of work you don't have to do.
Oct 29, 2017, 02:26 AM
Registered User
jbarchuck,

I'm an IMPBA card holder on/off 20yrs I guess, I can't remember. Some years I can play & some I can't (work, life and other projects) I have 6 gas boats, all two stroke. (Cats, Mono's & one Hydro still working on that) The smallest 41" and the largest a 58" stepped hull 50cc. I have the only (custom built by yours truly) IMPBA sanction stainless steel Mono (30cc) on the planet and to this day that boat is race ready. It's just a dead class with today's speeds. Two 30" electric mono's I did for the Grandkids, both on 4s Storing and the maintenance of Li-po's is a huge safety factor most over look! That little package can take your life, burn your house/shop down and destroy all your toys or all you've ever worked for! Safety is something I don't take lightly at work or at the ponds. My goal is to come home safe to my family and everyone around me make it home safe to their family's too, no matter at work or a pond. Everything on the back of my boats will slice you wide open even if the prop's not spinning, and everybody out on display wants to touch something shinny! Crazy...can't say I haven't been an Outlaw and throw one in the river with all the water I have around me for a test hit or some tuning. Safety goes to a higher lever there than in a controlled or somewhat controlled area.

I've seen some crazy things happen at a race that could've been prevented if better maintenance was done. Boat's flying out of control. They're boat's,not planes! or WOT out of control stuck somewhere cause it can't pick up water until the engine blows cause no one can go after it till the race is over, thankfully I've never lost one. Even slips, trips and falls getting in a hurry with a 15lbs plus boat in your hands running and everything sharp and shinny now somebody needs stitches. I was the new guy at the air field for a couple hours (had to meet my daughter for lunch and wish I could've stayed longer) trying to pick any and everybody's brain and not get in the way of set-up. Heard a big bang, turned and it was a propeller had hit the ground, torque of a propeller nut not checked I guess. Glad I won't in the way of that! Got to meet the President of the club and chat for a minute, he's the one that turned me on to this place.

I saw some awesome planes and pilots that day. I'm pretty sure one of them guy's will Inspect this plane and take it up for me for a couple pictures. I hope it is slow enough for me to learn how to fly, right now the fun is building it and learning all I can. Wish I could've got the much bigger plane to restore too. My buddy said it was covered in tin? 8' wings? When I heard it went in a dumpster after removing it from the basement ceiling, my heart fell out my chest. for the rest of the day. I would've love to seen it.

Stick with me on this build, you just don't know how much I appreciate all your help! I'm reading between every word and sentence. Learning new words and the meaning. I've been reading and surfing all I can not to make any stupid mistakes. The color of the plane was blue. I hope I can find the color in Monokote as close to original and not be translucent. An iron and heat gun seem to be two tools I'll need anyway for whatever procedure. Rest assured I'll be ironing and shrinking everything in sight to learn how to tack it, and how much it shrinks to tight before going after the plane. I'm pretty sure medium weight Monokote will do what I need from what I've read and seen. I do still have plenty of sanding from what I've read, it needs to go down to like 600 smooth so nothing pokes threw the Monokote.

Not under standing what you meant with AUW in order to pick a motor, ESC and battery and not having the parts to weight. I did a little more research and ordered a motor, Power46 brushless Outrunner and 60-Amp Pro switch-mode BEC brushless ESC. Should lift 5-7lbs. I still can't find a build sheet to find the proper motor angle. But your advice sounds like a plan. From what I can see, the plane should be able to swing a propeller 8 3/8" and the motor can swing up to a 10" propeller. That's something I have to do some more research on, I must have 30 props or better for my boats. I'll do some digging with the air flow thing before making new bulk heads. I will be using epoxy for the new bulk heads, noise heavy is better and thank you!

No it didn't come apart easy. I had to dig at it with an x-acto and dremel in places. It wasn't put together with epoxy, the glue seems hard and brittle. You can see on the tail section where he must have wrecked it and made a repair. I saw those pieces as in the way for the rebuild and ugly for my standards anyway. I want this thing to look sharp for Richard when I do the power point. If the axles clean up Ill leave them, I have new wheels and tires on the way. I'm going after some of the goop with the dremel though. I'm thinking the battery tray or a nice carbon fiber servo mount will cover them anyway on the inside. Still a lot to clean up on the inside. Whatever held the servos was gone. One of the guy's at the field told me to re ca all the parts. Not knowing the glue in the day used, I wonder if new ca will attack the old glue and weaken it? Both wings are tight, I put some pressure on them to pull the old cloth. And the fuse took some pressure to get the cloth off too. The hinges I had to work at to remove and think they'll be fine to.

If you say it should steer the noise wheel, I'll figure it out and make it so. The side note is the best! Those guy's had it rough, but wanted to play with their models. Back in the day with boating, it was a pole stuck in the water with a line 30' or so that attached to the boat and it did circles till it ran out of fuel, fastest lap is the winner. The one that sticks with me the most was a steam engine boat video I saw. My Grand Father gave me my first model for Christmas when I was 8yrs. old. It stunk cause all I could do was look at it sitting on the shelve when I finished it. The next one I did I cut a piece of hanger and heated one end with some matches and shoved it threw the rear and then the front of the car oil pan and all then glued the wheels! I still remember the thing would almost do a circle, but I could play with it.

On boats we off-set the stinger as much as a 1/4" to the right on the transom to correct torque roll. How much power and prop really effects torgue roll. The trim is adjustable up and down as are the trim tabs. You want the boat to air out as much as possible to reduce hydrodynamic drag without blowing over. For the most part, once it's set for race water meaning five other boats creating wake, it stays the same unless water is chopper from wind or you just need to drive slower. You really have to count on your pit man to spot dead boats on the water at speeds we run now. It does happen though, somebody runs over a dead boat. We run off-set rudders to clear prop wash to steer the boats. Cats, mono's and Hydros. Jet drives are set up on servos to steer left/right and up/down.

It was so relaxing at the air field, no one was rushing to make the next heat race or rushing to fix a boat. Having to stop what your doing to pit for someone with four boats to run that day and no pit man. Don't get me wrong, I love my boats and all the great guy's I've meet over the years, but looking at some float planes like I always wanted. I just want to learn how to fly slow and easy and land it.
Nov 14, 2017, 08:14 PM
Registered User
Not a lot to share but making progress. Hardest part is finding suppliers and having boxes kicked across the states by carriers. Huge shout out to Balsa USA after finding them for getting my blocks and wood to me so I could play quick! I ordered 3/16" 5 ply for the main bulk head but they sent me 1/4"...I ran with it knowing I was gonna turn into to piece of swiss cheese anyway and still have some more holes to punch in it. Didn't take much to open the key ways up and I'm still under weight so far anyway, she's on a major diet!

Nothing is glued/epoxy in the photo but fits nice and will be perfect with the final sanding after set. Still have two more bulk heads to cut. When the rx gets here, I'll start opening them up for placement of the parts. Not knowing what I'm ordering with no specs. The steer axle took a few hours to straighten and re-bend for my ride height. It was 5/32" so I ran with it. Didn't like how off center the locking hub set my center line (and weight) so I popped a tack on a washer just to stay money, center line is set. I'll tune the heat area's and weld up with some paint later.

I have a few rolls of the solar-tex in the shop to play with and the color is spot on color wise and the vintage look I'm going after. I hope it works out, I like it. Every single part is in transit to complete the build and should be here by Friday. Looking forward to some cold beers and a long weekend, this plane will fly by spring.

jbarchuk, I did kick the servos up some and they're on the way. All of my toy's have names. I'll call this one the "Pussy Cat" I love it!


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