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Nov 11, 2004, 10:24 AM
MJH
MJH
Registered User
Thread OP

F-4 Phantom foam Parkflyer


Hello,

Inspired by Steve's F/A-18 I decided to build one of my all time favourites F-4 along the guidelines set by Steve's ingenious design.

Maiden was today and it is a really nice flying park jet.
It is similar to F/A-18 and F-15 in all dimensions and weight, so it is doable with the same powerplants those 2.
Mine flew with GWS motor.
Apart from needing to tweak CG, flight offered no surprises, the thing flew just fine. My battery was too light to get CG right and I need to move it (CG)about 1-1.5cm more forward. Elevator was just a little too sensitive.
Being really carefull on elevator it flew nice. It will fly in small areas just as well F/A-18 does.
I only have inboard flaperons and aileron response is much slower than what You might have gotten used on Hornet, but I think that Phantom is not that agile to begin with. I does a nice roll though. Still a little disappointing, but not terribly so. Flaps really slow it down for landing.
Only one flight was made. I think my esc got a little too hot, since there were some cutoffs on the engine noice. I need to modify tail so it gets some cooling air. My setup is pushing esc and motor hard.

Sorry, no photos of maiden, I was alone. A couple of guys showed up after landing. They were asking where i bought it

Do not ask about the plans yet, unfortunately I can not make them availlable, at least not yet.

Some pics are here.

Matti
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Nov 11, 2004, 10:35 AM
Registered User
Very sweet looking plane.
Without "asking" for plans, we ummmm.....
look forward to hearing about the progress in memorializing how one might build such an aircraft.
Nov 11, 2004, 10:39 AM
Tight is Right
Darren Hintze's Avatar
Another beautiful plane that REALLY needs some fans in it.

You guys are killing me. Man, I love F-15 and F-4 (I already have an F-18 in the squadron). I guess it's fortunate these aren't going anywhere because my list of "must build" planes is getting longer and longer and longer.

AWESOME looking F-4. Great job.

Darren
Nov 11, 2004, 11:08 AM
MJH
MJH
Registered User
Thread OP
If You guys are dying to install fans in Hornet or Eagle, You are about to be done when You see this. It would be ideal for some really hot 55's.
U want fans, this would be the plane to put them in! I have been thinkin and drawing some sketches allready.
I do not have knowledge or experience on ducts, but should not be too hard on F-4 and exhaust end is clear. Servos for flaperons could go to wing or wingroot...
Its lightweight construction, around 10 oz with paint, GWS motor and servos minus receiver and bat
Nov 11, 2004, 11:58 AM
Registered User
Ralph A. D'Amelio's Avatar
That is so cool...again one of my favorites.

Ralph
Nov 11, 2004, 01:30 PM
Registered User
borabora's Avatar
Man! That's cool, that's more then cool! Perfect!

A question, any nose down pitch problem did you get due to your thrust line is little above of the design thrust line of the jet? If not, you will going to open a big door for me

Bora
Nov 11, 2004, 03:48 PM
Park Jet Guru
jetset44's Avatar
Great work, Matti! Looks very good and glad to hear it flies so well.

Yes, it's too bad the tip dihedral of the F-4 makes it not practical to have full span flaperons...
Nov 11, 2004, 04:46 PM
MJH
MJH
Registered User
Thread OP
Bora
No pitch down problems. Will know more of that whan I have chance to fly it more. Weather is supposed to be crap for next couple of days. Need to fix CG and get esc heat sink into open air. As i said, it was a little pitch instable, but me thinks due CG problem. Battery was not heavy enough. If this thing developes to a plan at some point, I need to figure out how to make tail lighter. Not an easy task, it is quite simple as it is.

Jetset
Did You read Your mail? With some thinking, I am sure someone will find a way to make working lightweight full span flaperon. I was in a hurry to get this thing airborne before I get too busy doing something else.

My bird is a prototype and should be considered as one. It has shown potential to be really good flyer, but before it is something like Steve designed, there are several things that need to be sorted out.
I can live with less effective aileron response. CG and the weight in tail is more of problem. I use a relative heavy battery pack (8xKAN650) and if You are going with lipo pack, You would have to add weight to nose. Not good.
As an airplane, I think it is quite ready. It looks good in the air and I don't mean the looks of it, I mean the way it flies. Even with sensitive pitch it was ok and easy to fly. I even rolled it couple of times on maiden.
Nov 11, 2004, 05:02 PM
The Prop Rotates Around $
iflyprops's Avatar
There is a little ducted fan F-4 built by Estes (a friend just bought one for $50 at Wal-Mart) that has a little cruddy fan and only rudder (I think) that is just begging for some mods...
Nov 12, 2004, 03:14 AM
MJH
MJH
Registered User
Thread OP
I am willing to share my experience on this plane if someone else is willing to make a plan based on my sketches and pics I took durin build. I have about 100 pics from te build and details over the plane.

I do not have the CAD skills to make he plans myself and right now I don't have the time to learn them, so I am offering the material for someone to do it.
I can also point the necessary mods needed to make Phantom ready for "serial production". Those minor problems can be solved and I allready have some ideas on how to.

I designed my F-4 by doing rough sketches with ms paint over 3-side wiev downloaded from the web (nasa pages I think). They were printed to the size of the model and the rest I figured out as I went along the costruction.
Construction was simple and plane feels strong and solid, even though I used depron doublers on the corners. They gave nice round shape on the fuselage.

So, any interest on the plans?
It's my contribution and I also offer my experiences to improve the design.
-M-
Last edited by MJH; Nov 12, 2004 at 04:38 AM.
Nov 12, 2004, 03:51 AM
Registered User
Rudi's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJH
I am willing to share my experience on this plane if someone else is willing to make a plan based on my sketches and pics I took durin build. I have about 100 pics from te build and details over the plane.
-M-
Hope steve is reading this and is able to make us a plan for this wonderfull F-4 ( ever a dream of me since my childhood)

Greetings from vienna

Rudi
Nov 12, 2004, 04:37 AM
MJH
MJH
Registered User
Thread OP
I have been in contact with Steve.
We know he is busy with Gripen and T-38.
Lets not ask him too much and be happy with what he has done allready.
I am sorry, but I can not do them by myself any time soon, (like 6 months).
Nov 12, 2004, 08:18 AM
Registered User
excellent. great job. i tried to do the same but i got a little frustrated with the set up for the elevator. this might just serve as motivation to get out the fanfold. good luck with the changes
Nov 12, 2004, 09:49 AM
MJH
MJH
Registered User
Thread OP
Any help from this?
Nov 12, 2004, 10:08 AM
MJH
MJH
Registered User
Thread OP
Flaperon servos and elevator CF tube. Its got pianowire going through and bended to anhedral. It is flexible enough to save mechanism in case of ...
Elevators are secured with ply doubler and epoxy to take aerodynamic forces at high speeds, but those should crack when tail hits something hard.
Aplied too much pressure when gluing 10x10 stock for motor mount. It got tilted so motor is off centered.


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