20mm x 20mm FC/ESC/VTX stack in a 5 inch racing quad - RC Groups
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Oct 12, 2017, 06:48 PM
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20mm x 20mm FC/ESC/VTX stack in a 5 inch racing quad


To me, running a lightweight quad for track racing always made sense and there are many new frames about that allow for this whilst still remaining durable. Up until recently the smaller 20mm x 20mm FC/ESCs were consigned to micro builds due to lower ESC maximum current however this is rapidly increasing, particularly with HGLRC in the mix with many new innovations.

I'm curious to hear more about people's experiences with using 20mm x 20mm electronics in a proper 5" build - durability, reliability, performance etc. Personally I've only seen one other 20mm 5" build on RCgroups buried in a micro quad thread so would like to make this a bit more visible here. I'm documenting my build and have started off with my reasoning for components. My new XJB F428 Elf stack was delivered today and so will start building and documenting tonight and will then follow up with actual performance when I get to racing it in my local MultiGP chapter.

Here is the first part of my build details on the objective of the build and why I chose the components I did:

http://quadifyrc.weebly.com/reviews/...nents-overview

Edit: Link to full build

http://quadifyrc.weebly.com/getting-...rt-2-the-build
Last edited by QuadifyRC.com; Oct 21, 2017 at 03:19 PM. Reason: Link to full build added
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Oct 12, 2017, 09:21 PM
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i made a 5 inch with F425 which is the old version of the 428 you have.
the battery pads stripped, two caps exploded and after iI fixed it, a motor pad stripped aswell, during a punchout.
basically a nightmare.

but I have the same stack working fine on a micro 2 inch.

I give you a suggestion, pass a small copper wire through the holes on the battery pads, and wrap it tight, and then solder it. and then solder the battery wires to that. And I wish you good luck.

My experience is that the stack is good, but the PCB is not good for very high currents. no way those battery pads can carry 28x4=112A continuously. It is obviously not meant to be used with an XT60.

other than this, 20x20 stacks are a good way to shave other grams. but at the moment I still prefer 30x30 for reliability. those 10 grams are not worth the hassle if something breaks in the middle of a race. At the moment the only well-designed 20x20 esc that I can trust on a 5" is the Airbot Ori32.

EDIT: this is not to turn you down, others had better luck, but I want to warn you to be very careful.
Last edited by nasone32; Oct 12, 2017 at 09:28 PM.
Oct 12, 2017, 10:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nasone32
i made a 5 inch with F425 which is the old version of the 428 you have.
the battery pads stripped, two caps exploded and after iI fixed it, a motor pad stripped aswell, during a punchout.
basically a nightmare.

but I have the same stack working fine on a micro 2 inch.

I give you a suggestion, pass a small copper wire through the holes on the battery pads, and wrap it tight, and then solder it. and then solder the battery wires to that. And I wish you good luck.

My experience is that the stack is good, but the PCB is not good for very high currents. no way those battery pads can carry 28x4=112A continuously. It is obviously not meant to be used with an XT60.

other than this, 20x20 stacks are a good way to shave other grams. but at the moment I still prefer 30x30 for reliability. those 10 grams are not worth the hassle if something breaks in the middle of a race. At the moment the only well-designed 20x20 esc that I can trust on a 5" is the Airbot Ori32.

EDIT: this is not to turn you down, others had better luck, but I want to warn you to be very careful.
Hey thanks for the feedback, don't worry I absolutely don't take it negatively and I can see that is not the spirit in which you have given it . It is all a bit new trying to load these components up with a bigger load so appreciate the feedback and discussion. Yes I'd read a few times about VBAT pads coming off (top and bottom) and the copper wire trick is a good one - that guy with the awesome accent on youtube recommended it as well if I remember correctly.
Oct 19, 2017, 11:01 PM
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For anyone interested this is what it looks like for fairly typical current gear.
Oct 20, 2017, 12:28 AM
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I once did a 5 inch build with a pikoblx. Offloaded the escs to a separate pdb with 12v/5v out for the flight controller and fpv gear.

It worked in a sense that it could get in the air but the pids were insanely high and it still struggled to fly solid. Same build swapped with a standard nazef1 and the flight behavior was night and day.

I want to say the 20x20 boards have a frame size limit that it becomes counter productive.
Oct 20, 2017, 03:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crashaccepted
I once did a 5 inch build with a pikoblx. Offloaded the escs to a separate pdb with 12v/5v out for the flight controller and fpv gear.

It worked in a sense that it could get in the air but the pids were insanely high and it still struggled to fly solid. Same build swapped with a standard nazef1 and the flight behavior was night and day.

I want to say the 20x20 boards have a frame size limit that it becomes counter productive.
That's weird about the PIDs. The physical size of a flight controller should make no difference, I was worried about the ESC being able to keep up. Funny, exactly what you have mentioned has just been released by Matek:

https://www.banggood.com/Matek-Syste...p-1214331.html
Oct 20, 2017, 04:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeymagicNZ
For anyone interested this is what it looks like for fairly typical current gear.
Yeah extremely nice and compact! You forgot the clue of this topic, what's your final weight?

For the guy with pikoblx, that was surely a software issue not a size limitation. The sensor itself is always the same.
Oct 20, 2017, 07:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nasone32
Yeah extremely nice and compact! You forgot the clue of this topic, what's your final weight?

For the guy with pikoblx, that was surely a software issue not a size limitation. The sensor itself is always the same.
It possibly was a software issue. Threw the same pikoblx in an atom build and had no issues until it crashed into a puddle. Since then I just stuck to 30x30 for minis and 20x20 for micros. Hasn't let me down since.
Oct 20, 2017, 05:54 PM
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Curious on final weight too.

I have a similar build and plan. Right now 185g dry weight with a 30x30 AIO. Going to put in a micro board to hopefully save 10g. AUW 306g right now.
Oct 20, 2017, 06:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nasone32
Yeah extremely nice and compact! You forgot the clue of this topic, what's your final weight?

For the guy with pikoblx, that was surely a software issue not a size limitation. The sensor itself is always the same.
Oops, thought I put the picture up on scales. it is 210g without props so... probably about 230 with Dal 5040v2 or maybe 225 with the new 5051 cyclones. I was thinking about going titanium hardware to save a bit more but probably better spending the time practicing!
Oct 20, 2017, 06:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pur1337
Curious on final weight too.

I have a similar build and plan. Right now 185g dry weight with a 30x30 AIO. Going to put in a micro board to hopefully save 10g. AUW 306g right now.
That is light! What motors is this based on? Might blow away in a stiff breeze. I'm planning on running 1000mah 4s because I'm guessing it should be less thristy with this weight and 2205 2450kV motors
Oct 21, 2017, 03:41 AM
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I got a piko on a 5in efaw ultra frame with 1608 3200kv though frame is 29g and lighter than most 3in.
With motors and wraith 25a mini its like 183g and with 650 4s 75c so like 240g or so auw with lipo.
With 1407 tornados and 3.5in dual Hq props it was 132g and I thought these 1608 3200 I could be gotten down to 21 gram or so an added only 25 grams with motors and 6g more with 5038 and been 160g ready to go but guess not.
I actually posted it was way lighter in this post but just edited it as I actually weighed it instead of add the motor weight difference I had in my head and its heavier than I thought.
1407 motors do drop some serious weight and have plenty of power on sub 150g setup.
Almost about the same if say for weight gain amd power increase unless 5s or 6s or deep pjtched props want to be used then the 1608 would be they way.
They stay very cool on 5038 on 4s and its like flying a feather with a jet engine on it.
Id bet they have no problem with 5s but believe the innova would which is the only part stopping 5s and 6s simce it gets fed input voltage.
Need to cut that pin and power from 5v and Bammo good to go.
Too many nice parts coming out I can't take it anymore.
Gonna have to up voltage to 5s to
Justify 1608 weight I guess.

Also use Hglrc f428 tx20 on 2 3in builds and a aio Zeus fc on a 2in and all work good so far.
Havnt pulled any power really so far to really test there ability.
I didnt solder a wire through the hole on power pads though which worrys me since my Hglrc v4 f3 had every signal pad come off it with no effort what so ever.
We will see I guess.
Coulda made em twice as big to make em useful for 5in quads really
Sure they'll be a v2 or new model coming along soon though,gotta keep putting those bird crumbs out☺
Last edited by Dirkdigla666; Oct 21, 2017 at 04:48 PM.
Oct 21, 2017, 04:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirkdigla666
I got a piko on a 5in efaw ultra frame with 1608 3200kv though frame is 29g and lighter than most 3in.
With motors and wraith 25a mini its like 138g and with 650 4s 75c so like 200 or less actually auw with lipo.

Also use Hglrc f428 tx20 on 2 3in builds and a aio Zeus fc on a 2in and all work good so far.
Havny pulled any power really so far to really test ..
That weight is obscene!

Just finished the last part of my build now. 230g but suspect will be closer to 250g with a proper antenna and battery straps. OMG I've never had a build where by pure luck of the motors were asigned to the correct location and the motors were spinning in the correct direction for reverse props. Definitely good luck over good planning.

Mother in law babysitting tomorrow so I can maiden it
Oct 21, 2017, 07:43 AM
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Full 5" build log with the F428 TX20 Elf


Damn these take a while to write:

http://quadifyrc.weebly.com/getting-...rt-2-the-build

Hope someone can find this useful. If you already have the F428 I have a good tip in here on how to reliably run heavier wires to the ESC VBAT pads.
Oct 21, 2017, 09:03 AM
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good job!

this was my 185g dry weight build. sorry I don't have a picture where it's complete.
I made a frame myself, 5 inch 160mm with overlapping props. PLUS configuration. 1608 3600kv.

you must know i pulled the trigger again on a hglrc elf 428 with tx and cam bundle.

what AWG on your XT60?
and why the hell didn't they make the pads 2 focking millimeters bigger?


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