Grounded!!! Frustrated!!! - RC Groups
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Oct 11, 2017, 05:52 PM
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beil1994's Avatar
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Grounded!!! Frustrated!!!


Hi Everyone... It's been 3 weeks since I've been on this forum promising a flight video of my newly built Deweybird sporting an old Cox .049 Surestart. Wondering where that video is??? Well, after finding a day when weather would let me fly and having a co-pilot to assist with launch, my Surestart which started on the bench faithfully by the third flip on numerous occasions decided not to start after an hour of flipping with nothing more than a sputter and a pop here and there. What The Heck!!! Packed up and went home. Second attempt a week later... Same thing. Spent an hour... Swapped out 4 motors which have all started without problems on the bench but did nothing more than a sputter here and there in the field. I can't figure it out. Here's where I'm at. Strip down these engines... Check the reeds (they were all good).... Check the needles... Replace my ignition battery.... and try it again. I will tell you, that I'm extremely discouraged. I know these things work fine. I've run them all on the bench without problems. I will tell you that I am having leverage problems flipping and trying to get to the valve for an adjustment while holding the model, because I feel like if it does start I wont have a good grip. Any suggestions with that or why my engines wont start in the field would be helpful. Weather was a bit cool and humid... Could that have an effect? I want to fly this thing really bad, but I'm not having any luck. I even had that screw it.... let's go electric moment, but I want to stick it out with glow engines. BTW... is there a model rack/holder for smaller 1/2A airplanes while I start and warm up engines that will hold it secure?

Thanks again guys for any input.

Matt
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Oct 11, 2017, 08:08 PM
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How did it react to priming and opening the needle more? Priming should cause it to run for a few seconds. If it doesn't run on a prime then check your glow head. Also check that your fuel is fresh and good. These engines are very simple, so start with the fuel and glow aspect.

Mike
Oct 11, 2017, 08:32 PM
Now I have to land that thing?
PGregory's Avatar
After your field experience, when you went back to your bench, did they run just fine?
Are you using the same fuel in both locations?
Oct 11, 2017, 08:39 PM
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beil1994's Avatar
The fuel is a 25% Nitro with a 20% Castor/Synthetic mix. The fuel itself is only a couple of months old. I will try inspecting the glow heads after picking up a new battery. I'm guessing two solid hours worth of trying to start these engines has weakened the battery to the point of being useless. in fact towards the end, I wasn't even hearing the fuel sizzle anymore but am not convinced the engine wasn't flooded. These would give a quick half second burst on the prime sometimes a little longer but by the time I got my fingers back on the needle to adjust it... It would stall. This engine would always start somewhere around 3 1/2 turns out, but very rich and leaned out to optimal with about a half turn in. I tried that same set up and wound up with the needle totally closed to 5 turns open at 1/4 turn increments with no results. I'm not understanding why it wouldn't start at that same 3 1/2 turns out setting that worked multiple times on the bench mount.

Matt
Oct 11, 2017, 08:41 PM
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beil1994's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by PGregory
After your field experience, when you went back to your bench, did they run just fine?
Are you using the same fuel in both locations?
I haven't since I want to pick up a new battery. Pretty sure I ran the one I have down to nothing. Gonna swing to Lowe's and grab several lantern batteries so I have extras. I will try this within the next day or so. Good question though. Also... Yes, same fuel.

Matt
Oct 11, 2017, 11:31 PM
Registered User
Any chance of a picture of the engine, tank and fuel line? I don't think the engine is getting fuel.
Big difference between a straight line on the bench and sitting on the ground.
Last edited by skaliwag; Oct 11, 2017 at 11:33 PM. Reason: more to say
Oct 12, 2017, 12:33 AM
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Amp Abuser's Avatar
Glow plugs of the cox type are thirsty amp draining beasts that require an orange glow to persuade the engine to fire up.
Its possible the reed valve got gummy and sealed not allowing fuel in but a cylinder prime would have at least heated it
up in brief bursts starts and allowed flow again.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-Glow-Plu...53.m2749.l2649

I have three of these one modified with a clip type for cox style glow plugs. Armed with 12v starter battery and Sullivan Hornet 1/2A elect
starter the most foul, ornery, stubborn .049 engine will draw fuel and start up. Once ran for the day the spring starter will get things going
again. Never flip start for an hour leaving you frustrated with a headache ever never again... all for fun and fun for all.
Last edited by Amp Abuser; Oct 12, 2017 at 12:49 AM.
Oct 12, 2017, 12:41 AM
Registered User
Amp Abuser's Avatar
Exell HR-40 40,000mAh 1.5V Zinc-Carbon Radio Battery

https://www.batteryjunction.com/exel...yABEgJjrPD_BwE

Should you want to continue with a simple starting system this battery will last for a long, long time.
Oct 12, 2017, 12:41 AM
Registered User
☝️☝️☝️What he said!☝️☝️☝️. I'm suspecting that it's your battery. Cox engines are Amp thirsty.
Oct 12, 2017, 01:19 AM
Registered User
I've seen new tanks that have a drop of solder lug the pickup tube. Do you know fuel is flowing? You CAN see it in the line? The fuel IS dribbling out of the back of the engine?
I've also lugged one vent line, and pressurized the tank by umpingrr fuel into the tank to prime the pickup line
Oct 12, 2017, 07:24 AM
Now I have to land that thing?
PGregory's Avatar
If it is the battery giving you conniptions, I had enough with doubtful batteries and such and went on a quest to solve the problem, once and for all. Too many hours/days spent as kid flipping when it was the battery, all along. You get good a flipping, at least.
Funny, but the more flying you're doing, the better your bulletproof program becomes, and you can travel lighter and lighter - just the essentials when you have confidence in them.

My final solution is "Da Beast" glow charger that I power off a weathered, honking 3s 2600mAh Lipo - but I can use any LiPo, or any other battery such as any 12v battery, etc. Never have any problems, anymore.

Parts needed, all found cheap on eBay(pics of components, below, just taken off ebay):
3.0 Amp Voltage Regulater - make sure it is the 3.0A one, and it goes down to "1.25 Volt"
Volt/Ammeter unit
3.5mm Bullet Connectors - or XT60 connector to plug in your beefy LiPo
Cox Glow Head Clip

Your problems will be over. You have direct real-time readouts of Voltage and Amps - shows you what's going on with the glow head.
Other people in my club are coming around to this - why not, for a few small $'s know exactly what's going on.
I have several of these, at least one with a glow clip for Cox glow heads, and others for standard glow plugs on larger engines.
If you want me to put one together for you, send me a pm.
Oct 12, 2017, 07:36 AM
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rchopper56's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amp Abuser
Exell HR-40 40,000mAh 1.5V Zinc-Carbon Radio Battery

https://www.batteryjunction.com/exel...yABEgJjrPD_BwE

Should you want to continue with a simple starting system this battery will last for a long, long time.
Thanks for posting. I had the impression that batteries like you have posted disappeared back in the 60's.

I do have a comment on the weather affecting batteries like you posted, they lose their ability to maintain operating as the temperature approaches 32F, and drop to zero below 32F.

Gene
Oct 12, 2017, 09:00 AM
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surfer_kris's Avatar
I think they have disappeared as a single battery cell. The inside of those batteries will house a few D-cells in series...
Oct 12, 2017, 09:19 AM
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beil1994's Avatar
This is great information. I am thinking battery. I questioned the fuel flow on two separate sure starts... so I broke out a Babe Bee, then a Texaco which as we know are tanked engines. Stiill no start in the field on these days despite great bench success. I am also going to invest in better batteries and a Hornet starter. PGregory.. will send a pm a bit later when I get home. I am interested in that battery setup. Will keep all posted. Thanks a bunch.

Matt
Oct 12, 2017, 10:06 AM
Registered User
Just thought I should add, I blow into the intake to see if the reed is sealing. It should go through, but seal pretty good when you suck the other way. A small squeak is ok, but it should seal well like a check valve. I have gone to a power panel 20 years ago. The needle tells you how strong the glow is, and if the plug has blown. A real time saver on a hot day. I have had a plug blow just from running on a prime, and at least knew right away. Still tears, but no wasted time. I use that Cox clip but went to the next larger wire size because I wanted longer leads. Kind of hard to attach the thicker wire. I have melted the plastic on those too.


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