How does Part 107 affect sport flying? - RC Groups
Thread Tools
Sep 23, 2017, 05:42 PM
Registered User
Discussion

How does Part 107 affect sport flying?


My manager is talking about having his employees including myself get a 107 license so we can operate a multi for site surveys and other business related operations. Once someone has a license under Part 107 are they always a commercial pilot even back at the RC field doing the regular weekend sport flying? Fortunately so far he has said we could opt out. I wouldn't be interested if it means losing amateur status when sport flying.
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Sep 23, 2017, 05:47 PM
Fire Marshall Bill
No it does not. But if you get involved (hobby or commercial) in something really stupid/unfortunate, it gives them one more avenue to pursue enforcement: take away your 107 certification.
Sep 26, 2017, 11:11 PM
Registered User
Any other thoughts or opinions?
Sep 29, 2017, 08:27 AM
Multi-Platform Pilot
barracudahockey's Avatar
If you're sport flying you're sport flying, 107 isn't required and doesn't apply.
Sep 29, 2017, 11:56 AM
Fire Marshall Bill
Not really what he is asking.

As expressed, the OP is concerned that possession of 107 certification means that any flight he does is henceforth a commercial flight under he cert.
I tried to reassure him, but he isn't willing to take my assertion alone.

Dave, to amplify, it would be like insisting that a commercial airline pilot who take his family for a spin in his own private Cessna is making a commercial flight.
Simply not the case. It is a GA flight. However, if something goes sideways, he screws up in someway, he could certainly be held to a higher standard, and could risk forfeiture of his certifications and commercial license.
Sep 29, 2017, 10:51 PM
Registered User
Exactly my concern. A commercial driver's license holder is always held to some CDL standards even when driving the family sedan. Not subject to the hours restrictions but other restrictions like DWI at 2% BAC apply even off duty.
Sep 30, 2017, 08:46 AM
I miss President Reagan
KMK001's Avatar
Maybe someone should call the FAA and ask?
Oct 19, 2017, 02:17 PM
Registered User
otsog's Avatar
As I learned it while studying for my 107, the pivot point is intent at the time of flight: if you're flying for fun, 107 doesn't apply.

Some people suggest that footage captured during a hobby flight can be sold without a 107 but I'm not sure if that holds up in court. "Honest, I took off and then Godzilla jumped out from behind a bush!"

All that said, I don't think there's enough case law yet to be 100% certain that holding a 107 won't complicate a hobby flier's life.

Hope that helps.

Erik
Oct 19, 2017, 05:32 PM
Old Timer
California Condor's Avatar
What if someone wants to pay you for something you took for fun?
Oct 24, 2017, 12:34 PM
Registered User
IMO recreational flying with toy's not practical for commercial applications is not commerce and cannot be directly regulated by the FAA. But as I said that's just my opinion. As you say there are not enough court cases.
Oct 24, 2017, 05:14 PM
I miss President Reagan
KMK001's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by otsog
As I learned it while studying for my 107, the pivot point is intent at the time of flight: if you're flying for fun, 107 doesn't apply.

Some people suggest that footage captured during a hobby flight can be sold without a 107 but I'm not sure if that holds up in court. "Honest, I took off and then Godzilla jumped out from behind a bush!"

All that said, I don't think there's enough case law yet to be 100% certain that holding a 107 won't complicate a hobby flier's life.

Hope that helps.

Erik
I'd like to think the court would consider the circumstances. i.e. First time this guy was paid for anything vs someone with a client list. Things like that. But then, that might require a court system with good sense.
Nov 02, 2017, 01:28 PM
Product Manager at Hobbico
GWRIGHT's Avatar
Unfortunately it's not the court, it's the FAA that regulates the NAS. They've set precedent time and again when a private pilot does anything remotely considered "commercial". The best examples are when a private pilot takes friends up for a ride, or to go somewhere, and the friends pay more than half the "expenses". They deem the pilot as receiving compensation and therefore flying commercially. Although I don't currently fly fullscale, I may want to get current again so I don't want to lose that license. since I fly at events for my employer, and I'm "on the clock" so to speak, I got a 107 license. I had emailed the faa and they said since thats for marketing purposes, not for model development, it's considered commercial and requires a 107 certificate. I didn't want to risk losing the private ticket through some enforcement action if they ever start enforcing that at events. Sorry for the lengthy post, but the true test is compensation. If you receive compensation (that goes for sponsored pilots that get discounts also), then the FAA deems it commercial when you're demonstrating a product and therefore requires a 107 certificate. They simply haven't chose to enforce that.... yet

those that do reviews and get product provided for the review, that they keep,.. need to think about that..............................
Latest blog entry: blog
Nov 02, 2017, 01:33 PM
Multi-Platform Pilot
barracudahockey's Avatar
I don't charge for reviews, I charge for my photographs, they just happen to be model planes
Nov 02, 2017, 03:39 PM
Product Manager at Hobbico
GWRIGHT's Avatar
But if you get to keep the product after review, the faa can state that is compensation for the review, so you're a commercial UAS pilot when you fly it for the review ! Yes that may sound far fetched, but not in the eyes of the FAA. They've set precedent by punishing those that gave others a ride somewhere and the riders paid for the gas in their plane, or the rental on the plane. They're OK if the gas or rental charge (if you don't own the plane) was split EXACTLY 50/50 since that would be "sharing", but they get picky about sharing if the other party paid one penny more.
Latest blog entry: blog
Nov 02, 2017, 03:48 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by GWRIGHT
But if you get to keep the product after review, the faa can state that is compensation for the review, so you're a commercial UAS pilot when you fly it for the review ! Yes that may sound far fetched, but not in the eyes of the FAA. They've set precedent by punishing those that gave others a ride somewhere and the riders paid for the gas in their plane, or the rental on the plane. They're OK if the gas or rental charge (if you don't own the plane) was split EXACTLY 50/50 since that would be "sharing", but they get picky about sharing if the other party paid one penny more.
This is correct. And if you own the aircraft, you canít even split the engine reserve, oil change costs, etc. ONLY fuel. Ridiculous because if you split a rental, all of that is factored into the hourly rental cost, but so be it, thatís how the FAA sees it. Hell, just logging the PIC time as a CFI is considered compensation.

RStrowe


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Discussion How much does a Mobius affect an airplane's CG? Altbob Aerial Photography 2 Sep 05, 2017 07:32 PM
Question How does sweepback affect induced drag? Stazzo Modeling Science 31 Mar 06, 2017 08:15 PM
Discussion How much does the vertical component of propeller thrust affect the center of lift? FPV Racing Modeling Science 1 Dec 02, 2016 05:37 AM
Discussion How much does battery size affect flight characteristics? geekyd00d Mini Multirotor Drones 2 Nov 09, 2015 03:46 PM
Discussion How does the depth affect the signal with the sub and RC? dilan12345 Submarines 6 Oct 26, 2015 04:33 PM