F3X Nose weakness aka 'Rotstift' - RC Groups
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Aug 09, 2017, 11:17 AM
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wakumann's Avatar
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F3X Nose weakness aka 'Rotstift'


You may agree but most of our F3X ships have some of the weakest point at the nose which cracks easily in the not so perfect landings.

So the designer shall incorporate a small hatch just big enough to fit the radio and ballast system and reduced risk not to break any fingers during install.

However I was astounded when I saw the cut out on the new F3F design from JH called the Redshift, plenty of room , but possible designed only for slope hand catch landing ?
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Aug 09, 2017, 12:20 PM
Registered User
I only know the long nose has a weathercocking effect. The only one in history of airplanes.
Aug 09, 2017, 04:17 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakumann
You may agree but most of our F3X ships have some of the weakest point at the nose which cracks easily in the not so perfect landings.

So the designer shall incorporate a small hatch just big enough to fit the radio and ballast system and reduced risk not to break any fingers during install.

However I was astounded when I saw the cut out on the new F3F design from JH called the Redshift, plenty of room , but possible designed only for slope hand catch landing ?
Is the servo tray supposed to close out the huge bay? Maybe this is why some FX ships have the opening on the bottom so the compression side of a hard landing (Normally the top side) holds up better? Also the nose cone should take a lot of the load as long as the lap splice with the fuse is long enough and the fit snug enough to transfer the load from the nose cone to the fuse.

Several ways to solve this problem, and being an engineer you may have even more. There is the strength method of adding Kevlar, CF and or FG to the areas that are the most stressed. Then the energy absorption method, or flex solution that an EPP foam plane utilizes. I do not believe that any one has tried spring steel reinforcing strips but that has limitations in cost and how to connect to the fuse. That would also be signal blocking and could be against the rules of construction for F3F planes. I have also put a little foam block between the fuse nose and the nose cone to absorb some of the impact loading.

How are you going to solve this problem with your Redshift?

Tom
Aug 09, 2017, 04:42 PM
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wakumann's Avatar
Hi Tom,
thanks for your input .
the nose tip and the snug fit area before the LE are most critical, not much beef at this Redshift as per picture .
Most nose cones doesn't take much load nowadays because of weight concerns ( if constructed as on old Ellipse 2) .

Sure the whole tray area will be reinforced with the Servo, Rx- battery tray , but why is this cut out so huge in the first place ?? What was the intent .

Quote:
How are you going to solve this problem with your Redshift?
I will have this problem only if their are reports from reliable testers who put it in line with Freestyler performances , but not sure if Distributor sell me one.
Aug 09, 2017, 06:17 PM
It's time for me to fly
JimZinVT's Avatar
Tom, don't bother....the only purpose of this thread is to troll James Hammond. These two have been hounding him for months, maybe longer. Not sure what the beef is; I say if you don't like the planes, don't buy 'em, don't fly 'em.

I'm out....
Aug 09, 2017, 06:51 PM
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wakumann's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimZinVT
Tom, don't bother....the only purpose of this thread is to troll James Hammond. These two have been hounding him for months, maybe longer. Not sure what the beef is; I say if you don't like the planes, don't buy 'em, don't fly 'em.

I'm out....
JimZin
Good that's your out, just trolling here w/o any back-up .
Since when it isn't allowed to raise a legitimate question, must be Trump times ?
Aug 09, 2017, 08:35 PM
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screamin' eagle's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimzinvt
tom, don't bother....the only purpose of this thread is to troll james hammond. These two have been hounding him for months, maybe longer. Not sure what the beef is; i say if you don't like the planes, don't buy 'em, don't fly 'em.

I'm out....

x1000
Old Aug 11, 2017, 01:12 AM
Doc James H
A moderator felt this post violated the following rule: Trolling (Provocation).
Aug 11, 2017, 01:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wakumann
JimZin
Good that's your out, just trolling here w/o any back-up .
Since when it isn't allowed to raise a legitimate question, must be Trump times ?
Here's some more legitimate comments for you Tommo:

Why is:

"Your tail boom is too thin/too fat, your wing aspect ratio is too high/too low, your tail is too large/small, your nose is too long/too short, your moment arm is too long/short, your ailerons are too short/long, your flaps are too big/small, your wing curvature is too obtuse/not curved enough, your fuselage should have a canopy/nose cone, your fuselage profile is wrong, your wings and tail do not have any rigging angle, your aerofoil was not designed by Joe Bloggs/Smith/brown/Schmekelgruber/kloudenblaster/PD/AA/BB/CC/...XYZ, your wings should have straight trailing edges/more curved trailing edges, your aerofoil thickness is not enough/too much, there is not enough camber/too much camber, your ballast is too much/too little".

So as you can see, I completely agree with you Tommy dude - even before you ask!.

By the way, where are your designs?

Doc.
Aug 11, 2017, 02:13 AM
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Doc James H's Avatar

Dont be nosey.


Hmm...

Now I wonder what would happen if we bonded a 3mm thick CNC milled radio tray in the opening.

Then followed it by a 2mm wall thickness 450 MM Carbon ballast tube all bonded to each other and in to the fuselage until far behind the wing root?

Oh and these parts are placed in the prototype only, and not yet fixed, except in one picture...no need to tell me they are too far forward.

Oh and I know there is only one layer of kevlar in this nose...no need to tell me.

But on the production models it extends from behind the rear of the wing root TE to the tip of the nose...oh and its 2 layers...

Oh...and I know this ballast tube is not carbon...no need to tell me

But the production ones are...

Oh...and where are your designs Thomas?

Doc
Last edited by Doc James H; Aug 11, 2017 at 02:18 AM.
Aug 11, 2017, 02:19 AM
Closed Account
Look, I love the F3F people. They're great people, I've employed thousands of pilots, I have a great relationship with the F3Xpeople. I'm going to do great with them, in fact a poll came out in slopers digest recently, The redshift got 73% of the schnozz vote, the election is over... but if I'm elected president, we are going to reduce the schnozz by another 15%, We have to get rid of this weather cocking or we won't have a sailplane any more. We're going to have the best, we are the best.it's going to be a great, we're going to build a mold and have hobbyking pay for it.

We're building the mold folks, we are building the mold. It's gonna be great.

This schnozz is gonna be so strong, the likes of which the world has never seen before
Last edited by JGAF; Aug 11, 2017 at 02:36 AM.
Aug 11, 2017, 02:24 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc James H
Hmm...

Now I wonder what would happen if we bonded a 3mm thick CNC milled radio tray in the opening.

Then followed it by a 2mm wall thickness 450 MM Carbon ballast tube all bonded to each other and in to the fuselage until far behind the wing root?

Oh and these parts are placed in the prototype only, and not yet fixed, except in one picture.

Oh and I know there is no kevlar in this nose...no need to tell me.

But on the production models it extends from behind the rear of the wing root TE to the tip of the nose...oh and its 2 layers...

Oh...and I know this ballast tube is not carbon...no need to tell me

But the production ones are...

Oh...and where are your designs Thomas?

Doc
It looks massive but wakuman is right. This is a stress zone at many gliders.
There are a lot of ways to solve this "problem". Maybe this is no Problem.
Many glass fibre, carbon or kevlar in this area. When i watch the pics, there is enough material thickness.
Maybe the one who wants to go sure can do this :
Aug 11, 2017, 03:05 AM
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Doc James H's Avatar
To reiterate:

Oh and these parts are placed in the prototype only, and not yet fixed, except in one picture.

Doc.
Aug 11, 2017, 10:16 AM
It's time for me to fly
JimZinVT's Avatar
Justin you're killin' me!
Aug 11, 2017, 10:35 AM
Silent Flight
Twyl's Avatar
You guys are too serious. (Justin excluded) It's a hobby and these are toys.

Step away from the computer, have a beer, go chill at the slope. It's Friday.

-Jonathan


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