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Aug 06, 2017, 04:25 PM
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AntiArf's Avatar
Build Log

Gloster Meteor F8 24" span 30mm EDF w/Flight Video

Started this a while ago, using a stripped down glow EDF plan, reduced in size. The wing plan was used only as an outline, and for general rib locations. The wing sections were built flat on the board, tipping at the dihedral break. The notched nacelle disc formers use side keels, first glued across the LE and TE, also through the main spar, for alignment. Much of the side keels were cut away after tying the discs into the LE/main spar/TE, as they were no longer needed.

The fuse uses the plan formers and side keels, with a vertical perimeter keel added that was not per plan, eliminating the need for crutches and other plan features. With much of the fuse straight, the high former count was taken advantage of, by only using stringers in the curved front fuse area. The formers provide ample support for the 1/32" sheet without stringers, and the side keels provided a good sheeting joiner surface. The fuse was constructed from light wood, making up for some of the added weight of wing panels with twin nacelles, which can't be avoided with the twin subject. The 0.008" canopy is only 1.5 grams. The elevator uses a bellcrank mechanism mounted in the rear fuse and vertical fin, with 0.025" pushrod wire in the fuselage. The pushrod supports were added later, not shown in the photo. They also served as side keel cross braces with each mounted between the formers, as the contest balsa used for the fuse would break if you looked at it the wrong way, before the sheeting was attached.
Last edited by AntiArf; Sep 07, 2017 at 12:48 PM.
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Aug 06, 2017, 07:11 PM
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jumo004's Avatar
Wow ! You got sum skillz .......
Aug 06, 2017, 10:35 PM
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AntiArf's Avatar
Thanks Jumo.
Covering parts now, the less than exciting part. The nacelles weren't any more difficult than expected, using white Microlite, with each nacelle covered in 4 sections. Per each nacelle top and bottom portion, the first sheet is anchored down by leaving a mm or so excess, and ironing it down around the edge of the nacelle keels. The front is ironed down to the fan intake lip, which has small balsa inset planks behind the fan lip and between the nacelle stringers, sanded flush with the fan intake, also for covering attachment. Removing the fans if necessary would require slitting the covering directly behind the fan intake lips, while it would still be anchored down to the front of the nacelles, attached to the inset planking.

A detail missed in the first post is the fuse formers and nacelle formers, made from 4 sections and laminated at the seams, taking advantage of grain strength. The LE/main spar/TE formers are the main load carriers, while they are all tied into the wing ribs and are load carriers, to some extent. The main concern now is a solid glue joint across the inner lower main spar CF spars, and also adding small dia CF rods or spars across the top of the main spars after joining the wing panels together, probably out to the first wing ribs. Have two options for the wing installation, which are to install each panel individually, which is more difficult and probably won't do, or to join the main spars with a pre-made joiner and then assemble, which was the original plan. The bottom keel will need a small slice temporarily taken out to slide in the main spar, which is not a problem with the top of the fuse being sheeted.
Aug 07, 2017, 06:54 AM
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stacker's Avatar
Looks super!

Latest blog entry: He219
Aug 08, 2017, 02:58 PM
EDF rules... :)
AirX's Avatar
Originally Posted by jumo004
Wow ! You got sum skillz .......

Eric B.
Aug 10, 2017, 12:42 AM
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AntiArf's Avatar
Thanks Eric and Stacker.
Got the wings ready to mount. The inner panels will have 1/32" partial sheeting (wing walk type strips) for covering attachment and mating flush with the fuselage.
Last edited by AntiArf; Aug 10, 2017 at 12:59 AM.
Aug 11, 2017, 02:18 PM
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AntiArf's Avatar
Tacked the wing in place. A small portion of the bottom keel was temporarily cut away, to allow the main spar to slide in place (blue mask tape arrow in photo). The fuse sheeting was trimmed to allow the inner wing TEs to fit in place, while verifying that the wing is 90 degrees to to the fin. At the same time, the LEs also have to be test fitted and set, to ensure that the incidences match and are set as desired. I had ample friction between the main spar and LE fits against the fuse formers, so they would stay in place, after being test fitted. There is also a stringer (blue tape arrow) glued across the LE spars, that was cut to slip over the bottom keel during installation. While tack gluing the wing panels in place, ensure that the stringer ends are butted together, so that the wing panels do not flex forward or rearward.

Setting the wing panels is a bit tricky, as you have to first get everything test fitted and aligned as close as possible, and then tack one wing panel in place at the TE and LE, with the desired incidence. The second wing panel is tacked in at the TE, then adjusted at the LE if necessary to match the wing incidences, and tack glued in place. This method was a first time experiment, that all said and done was easier than fitting a full wing saddle on the fuse, or attaching and aligning individual wing panels.
Aug 11, 2017, 05:16 PM
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turbonut's Avatar
That is looking great so far.. you are a building machine
Latest blog entry: In flight
Aug 11, 2017, 10:11 PM
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Thanks Turbonut. Should be getting done faster than it is. Maybe a bit more motivation now, after getting the wing mounted. The wing attachment is now reinforced with shear blocks glued across the inner spars. The CF laminates running along the main spar top and bottom have more benefit, if they can't easily split away from the spars. Also ran 1/16" balsa strips from the the fuselage former directly ahead of the wing LE spars, forward to the next former, butting against the front fuselage stringers.

Test ran the fans with a single P10 ESC on 3s, staying cool. The EDF30/Feigao 5866kv setup was pirated from an A10, which flew with the setup. Never quite liked the model as much, after repairs due to the crystal vibrating out of the receiver, on the maiden. Usually I taped them in place. The model also had an elevator servo with lousy resolution, which could have been replaced, but I could always build a better one again, being an older build. Forgot to wattmeter the fans, but from memory the 2 fans run at well enough under 10A to not stress the ESC, and the same fans run on a single TBird 6 in a small ME262 twin, which has a cooling scoop for the ESC. The TBird 6 probably is ran at 6A, while Castle's don't seem to have a problem with making their ratings. OTOH the twin 30mm fans are a rough equivalent to a 5300kv Feigao or Hyperion in a single EDF40 fan. The goal here which seems on track, is to have the same approximate span/wing loading/AUW as two EDF40 models built and flown in the past year or so.
Aug 12, 2017, 09:31 AM
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2 motors on 1 ESC

Learn something new every day. Had the motors starting together most of the time when throttle was applied, and then couldn't get them to start together, with the ESC moved into the fuse. Two things that changed were connecting the servos and adding the diode drop harness, which I've been using with HK and Emax micro digital servos, where they are still quite fast. Really didn't think they were the issue though, and they weren't. The diode drop harness weighs a bit, but didn't want to further hack the ESC, after shortening the motor leads. Next thought was residual magnetism from running the motors shortly before, but that only has seemed to have a small effect on starting them in sync.

Solution: The third thing that changed was moving the ESC into the fuse, where the motor wires were now close together and touching, after the Y-split. The reason for not pulling the service lead lengths into the wing panels, was so that the wires would pull a bit easier through the small holes in the ducts, in the event of a future fan removal. I pulled the extra wire length into the wings, and the fans now start together every time, problem solved. Apparently there is coupling between the motor wires, if they are touching together after they split at the Y-harness. They can touch together immediately after the split without issue, but not further down the road.
Aug 16, 2017, 07:52 PM
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A bit of sheeting still to go on the nose area, with the forward most bay first inset planked with contest grade 1/16" balsa. The battery looks like it will be centered just forward of the CG, for balance. Keeping that area of the fuse bottom open, to install the rear battery compartment end plate when the model is as close to finished as possible. The plate may have to be mounted a few mm behind the fuse former that is directly in front of the ESC, which is also aligned with the CG location. The battery will install through the door opening area, and then be slid back in the wing area, where a foam shim will probably be used in the forward compartment area, to keep the battery rearward in place. The forward area of the battery/receiver bay has a removable floor for receiver/servo access, with a foam shim to keep the receiver in place. Not a good thing to have a remote chance of a receiver shorting out against a pushrod. The removable floor uses a tongue and groove at the rear, and securing screw in front, to hold it in place. The spring slide latch access door weighs 1.2 grams, using light 1/16" balsa with small formers to create the curved shape. Keeping the fuse weight low with light grade wood had paid off, as it looks like a sub 8oz AUW should be no problem.
Aug 21, 2017, 09:28 PM
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Good progress :-)
Old school builders often used internal elastic bands to secure hatches.
Bit of a pain but certainly low weight solutions.
I've found that sanding roundish sheeted fuses... is effectively done using sandpaper strips in Shoeshine fashion.
Care though as it's really easy to get aggressive when there isn't much wood depth to sand off.
If I might ask: what covering and is it ...reliably... paintable ?
My rolls of doculam has unpredictable issues with painting.
Sometimes paint sticks like glue sometimes it doesn't .. Grrr.
Same paint, same film roll, just to add insult to injury.
The almost free cost of Doculam comes with a Price.
I'm becoming much less tolerant of it.
Searching for reliable alternates.
Aug 22, 2017, 12:27 AM
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AntiArf's Avatar
Thanks. I'll have to get some newer pics up, as it's moving along. The Microlite covering has seemed to be consistent in it's ability to hold paint. Some paints work better than others, but I've never had a covering roll that showed an obvious difference from others, in it's ability to hold paint. The Rusoluem American Accents spray cans seem to be some of the better paints I've found with Microlite, in terms of adhesion, not relaxing the covering from painting, and good coverage with minimal weight added. This will use the same satin like silver that was used on two recent Microlite covered jet builds. Some paints will relax the covering, while it generally reshrinks in 24 hours, and a high power hair dryer will remove any remaining wrinkles. Trick I've found that works well is to set the model about 4 feet from a heat lamp bulb, while drying. Moving it around a bit to get the light on various surfaces will remove most all relaxing wrinkles from painting, done within 24 hours of painting. With the American Accents I've had very little issue with relaxing however. Past few shrunk out all wrinkles on their own, after drying.

Definitely not much wood to sand here. Learned from the past to first inset the nose where it is most curved, to provide a bit of sanding latitude, as 1/32" sheet provides very little. Note the filler on the inset planking was actually added under the final sheeting, to get the round shape as close as possible. If not done, then you have problems when you have to start sanding into the glue underneath the sheeting, to get the desired shape. Came up with a light weight filler that seems to be working well. I had a small amount of balsa filler remaining in a can, where I found if you added water, it would create a rock hard filler that could not be sanded, and was heavy. I then boldly added maybe 3/4" of Sig Microballons, to the roughly 1/4" of filler remaining at the bottom of the can, and mixed with ample water so it was not soupy, and pretty much like the consistency of a newly opened can. I'm convinced it's better now, than the can was with it's original formula. The stuff spreads out and can be shaped quite well with a thin plastic spreader, and sands easily, as well as being light weight.

This actually shouldn't need much hatch force, as the battery should sit behind the hatch rather than against the door, with a foam shim between the front of the compartment and the battery. Rubber band could work. The spring setup could be lighter, but I need to get some smaller diameter springs, so a standard pen spring got used. All said, probably no more than RE magnets in weight, although I sometimes use only 1 magnet and a washer, as they can be too strong. Thought about magnets, although one issue with a magnet here is that it would need a flat plate extending from the fuse former for one of the magnets, which gets slightly in the way of things while connecting the battery harness. Another method that works when less than full force is needed, is to have the magnets (or magnet and washer) slide across each other, rather than meet flat. The idea is to intentionally misalign them when the door is closed, so that they are not quite "satisfied" with their relative position to each other when the door is shut against it's stop, and are trying to pull closer. Nice thing there is that it provides some tolerance on the alignment, rather than two magnets having to meet perfectly.

Decided to cut the roundels from iron-on covering, and let the white covering make the white portion. I'll add a second layer of white Microlite to the fuse roundel's white centers, to hide the balsa underneath, as a single layer is not 100% opaque. The roundels will be applied first and then masked off, before painting the model silver. Using heavy decal material seemed counter productive, as that stuff really weighs. Should go the mask template and spray route, but it's more work, and masked Microlite tends to require touch up, as some paint will pull with tape.

All the control surfaces are now hinged. Pretty much got the aileron hinge slots dead on, setting the built in ailerons with the desired hinge gap during wing construction. Had to adjust one of them maybe 1/64", otherwise dead on. The key was to cut the slots, before cutting away the ailerons. Also done was to cut the slots a bit above center, allowing more up than down movement. May as well, especially since this will have differential aileron programming ability, with individual servos.
Last edited by AntiArf; Aug 22, 2017 at 12:44 AM.
Aug 22, 2017, 04:04 PM
Registered User
Quite an involved response... Thank you.
Not used Micro lite or the others ...only Airspan. Which I've had zero paint lift problems with.
Only course is to buy and try some
Bit interested in the paint peeling off with masking tape bit though. Nuisance lifts? or postage stamp sized pieces?
Have had more than enough of that nonsense with Doculam.

Artists' paint on paint gel mask.. in lieu of tape, helps.. a bunch.
Fiddly to apply though as what one hand paints on is what gets masked/becomes the final result.
Arguably a tossup between hand brushing the detail and hand brushing the mask .
Aug 22, 2017, 08:13 PM
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I haven't done much in the way of added prep, so it's tough to tell how well paint could adhere, done optimally. I've used scotch pads before, while you have to run across seams while running away from the overlap, or it can mar the seam a bit/cause some lifting, given how thin the stuff is. I have used lacquer thinner (mostly for light degreasing such as skin oils) while I believe some have used vinegar, which is probably a better etching prep.

Paint will lift with tape, period. Best solution there seems to be to use thin line masking, and just deal with the touch up. The Guillow's B25 tri-color scheme took some time fitting the masking paper, as it had to fit pretty much right up to the very thin tape lines, placed first to create the borders. Then the paper masks are taped to the tape lines, so that the total tape width sticking down at any place is only 1/8" or less. The idea there is to use painter's tape to create the borders, and then use cheaper but stickier tape to secure the paper masks. Done properly, the cheaper tape used to secure the paper is only overlapping the painter's tape, so it won't pull the previously painted color. It also helps hold down the paper to the painter's tape, as painter's tape wouldn't stick very well to the initial layer of tape, when it is 1/8" or less wide. Using blue covering as a fuselage base color for a painted blue/blue grey/white finish helped also. The wing bottoms were covered with white covering, as they were painted a whitish color. No masking necessary there, except for across the nacelles. Any chips on the areas of the darker two colors are fairly easily touched up, while the white is painted last. Really didn't take long with a fine brush to touch up the chips, along the thin areas where some paint pulled.

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