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Jul 25, 2017, 05:23 PM
solastagia
kcaldwel's Avatar
I suppose some new firmware for the Altis could make it do three F5J start height measurements in a row, and display them sequentially after the round. It seems the Aerobtec guys have been pretty responsive at incorporating different contest requirements into their firmware. There are several features for contest types other than F5J/ALES already.

You'd probably need to demonstrate some demand and sales before Aerobtec would expend the effort, but it might be worth talking to them about in any case. Three F5J style launches in a round with bonuses for low launch height would be interesting.

Kevin
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Jul 26, 2017, 01:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Builder
You are probably dead right and I personally I find that really sad.
Depends what you find sad... lack of offering, or building will...
If no will, then you can any time pay other locally to build one, instead waiting to drop from the sky a RTF model. Built overseas usually...
Claims as I am a pilot only make you only one feet wet in this hobby, imo.
Jul 26, 2017, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renatoa
Depends what you find sad... lack of offering, or building will...
If no will, then you can any time pay other locally to build one, instead waiting to drop from the sky a RTF model. Built overseas usually...
Claims as I am a pilot only make you only one feet wet in this hobby, imo.
I am with you and that is what I find sad. When I first got into RC I was racing 1/10 scale cars and we had to build them and if you wanted to win you took your time and did a good job. It seems like people are only interested in the end result with very little interest in the process to get there. I do have a few people I do full builds for with my kits and in about every case it is an older pilot or someone who is brand new to DLG's.

We are on the same page !
Jul 26, 2017, 02:48 PM
Time for me to Fly...
Mr. Wiz's Avatar
Any chance you guys can take this discussion to another thread? We'd like to keep this one mostly about TALES.
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Jul 26, 2017, 02:53 PM
solastagia
kcaldwel's Avatar
Or a Lua for the Taranis could be written to capture and display three F5J type starts in a round I think. I realize not everyone flies FrSky ( although I don't understand why not!), but it could at least be used to trial the idea. That would require telemetry to ground, although the pilot wouldn't have to have access to the altimeter information.

Kevin
Jul 26, 2017, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Wiz
Any chance you guys can take this discussion to another thread? We'd like to keep this one mostly about TALES.
Sorry about the side note, had no intention of derailing the TALES discussion. This (TALES) discussion has actually inspired me to look into stuff like this more seriously.

I need to watch the video of the contest because this could be a solution for older folks who simply cannot launch any more. The only part I am trying wrap my brain around is flying on the field while winch lines are stretched out or possibly running into a winch line while launching an electric model.
Jul 26, 2017, 03:24 PM
Time for me to Fly...
Mr. Wiz's Avatar
I like the idea of keeping it simple... you know, like F3k. I believe simplicity is the magic F3k offers people. TALES can be pretty simple too, if we're willing to let it be.
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Jul 26, 2017, 06:29 PM
Overkill is underrated
elac2az's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Wiz
I like the idea of keeping it simple... you know, like F3k. I believe simplicity is the magic F3k offers people. TALES can be pretty simple too, if we're willing to let it be.
Is "let it be" mean fly the rules that have been presented? Because, IMO, they don't yet meet your interest in keeping this concept simple. I think we should be discussing what might already be considered to make the concept simpler. Not trying to antagonize either, Wiz. I want to contribute here.

-Ed
EVEF Prez'
Jul 26, 2017, 06:33 PM
Time for me to Fly...
Mr. Wiz's Avatar
I'm with ya, Ed. Eventually, I want one simple launch height and that was the intent of my comment.
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Jul 26, 2017, 06:54 PM
solastagia
kcaldwel's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Wiz
I'm with ya, Ed. Eventually, I want one simple launch height and that was the intent of my comment.
One launch height with or without the zoom? Even a Radian can be made to zoom 10m over the cut-off height, and lower drag airplanes can do 20m+. That is a substantial increase on 100m, or 60m.

ALES rules never really addressed the zoom issue very well. F5J measures max height up to 10 seconds after cut-off to capture any zoom. The TALES rules as they stand don't even mention the zoom issue, and just say "launch height" when you are really talking about motor cut-off height.

Kevin
Jul 26, 2017, 07:02 PM
Time for me to Fly...
Mr. Wiz's Avatar
I'm not too worried about zoom height right now. If competition gets that stiff down the road, then we were successful with the new event and we can then look to modify the rules to address this problem..... assuming we decide its a problem.
Last edited by Mr. Wiz; Jul 26, 2017 at 08:47 PM.
Jul 26, 2017, 09:45 PM
Overkill is underrated
elac2az's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcaldwel
Launch height with or without the zoom?
ALES rules never really addressed the zoom issue very well. F5J measures max height up to 10 seconds after cut-off to capture any zoom. The TALES rules as they stand don't even mention the zoom issue, and just say "launch height" when you are really talking about motor cut-off height.

Kevin
You're right Kevin. Zoom is an element that might need to be addressed at some point. But Wiz is right, we need this format to see some use before focusing on this one element. Kevin, if an Altis is used as it is in F5J, then any zoom could be accounted for. But is it fair to force the use of one product on the event? If the device Barry is selling accomplishes the same thing as the Altis, then I would think OK as there would at least be a choice.

-Ed
EVEF Prez'
Jul 27, 2017, 11:27 AM
solastagia
kcaldwel's Avatar
There are about ten F5J legal devices, not just the Altis. It depends what you mean by "the same thing". The ALES CAM only shuts off the motor at the specified altitude (100, 150, or 200m) and/or 30 seconds, whichever comes first. It cannot measure, report, or stop any zoom. The Altis (and possibly many other of the F5J legal devices) can do the altitude cut-off at any specified height, any specified time, measure and report the F5J start altitude, and log it all as well.

I think zooming will be a rather big issue with low start heights. ALES pretends everyone is within 10% or 20m, but in reality there are many ALES start heights more than 20m above the usual 200m motor cut-off. It is far less important with a 200m start height than 100m.

Kevin
Jul 27, 2017, 11:35 AM
Time for me to Fly...
Mr. Wiz's Avatar
In F3K there are many different launch heights too and there isn't a damn thing that can be done about it. Why is this such a big deal in the other classes? The point of TALES is to have an event where the participants don't have to be able to throw the plane to achive a decent launch. If you want to launch as high as the highest guys with their zoom, just setup the plane to do that, problem solved. Of course, you may have a plane that doesn't work as well in light, low level lift.
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Jul 27, 2017, 11:46 AM
Dark Side of the Red Merle
Curtis Suter's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcaldwel

I think zooming will be a rather big issue with low start heights. ALES pretends everyone is within 10% or 20m, but in reality there are many ALES start heights more than 20m above the usual 200m motor cut-off. It is far less important with a 200m start height than 100m.

Kevin
Good points however the task times are much lower too so personally I think we need to fly it as I don't see the issue...yet.

Curtis


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