Thread Tools
Jan 14, 2020, 12:58 PM
Registered User
PaunFD's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmoshe

As I read all your old messages from the V1 of NT - I think you glued the VTail permanently to the fuselage. Am I right? Did you do it wih the EVO / Black version as well? Maybe this is the solution?
Yes, i did glued V-tail permanently to the fuselage on both planes.
However, when i glued to the V1 NT, i screwed up quite a bit, because CA glue spelled inside one the V-tail fin's mechanism, making it harder to be moved by servo ... and i ended up replacing both v-tail servos with some overkill (4kg torque servos), just to overcome the ... whatever happened (got glued together) inside, so both command surfaces to move the same in both direction.
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Jan 15, 2020, 02:40 AM
Registered User
PaunFD's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by alicecooper
New cars and planes.. tough choices to make.
One thing I always wonder about with my long duty planes is the servo brushes.
I don't know just how many hours of constant use they can do without failing, so when I get the slightest glitch, the whole lot get the flick.
According to my pack records I had about 200 flights averaging just under an hour with one plane before an aileron servo started to randomly go full deflection then come back (made for some interesting experiences so far from home), that was an Emax ES08MG, and I got it to repeat the failure on the ground, that turned out to be potentiometer failure, so I now use that figure as the end of life age for any Emax servo's now. They may run longer but I'm not risking it. It also depends on how smooth your many hours of flying are, smooth laminar air gives the servo's an easy life.
I have a great local bearing supplier here who sources motor bearings for me, and from their research, the ones I got were called 'silent series'693-ZZSMC3 MBA, they have hard chromed balls and races which run faster with less clearance than cheaper plain steel ball races. They seem to be lasting forever and are so quiet it's amazing, I have done a few motors with them now and as long as the armature hasn't run hot and demagnetised they all end up better than new.
Most of the servos that i use, especially in "heavy duty" planes are either Coronas or Corana build/manufactured with different branding logo.

However, i think that my - lets say trick for such a long lasting life for servos is actually the fact that i ... balance my planes in such a way that they are actually flies straight and level (with a few degrees nose-up attitude - in such a way that my planes climbs at 1200 - 1500m altitude in 15km trip) hands-of the sticks. I also allow some slope in the control linkages to act as a vehicle shock absorbers, and i tune my FCs in such a way that they don't act on small bumps given by turbulence - unless of course plane is thrown out hard of its straight and level flight attitude. To add to that, i don't push my planes in hard maneuvers, and i mostly do gentle maneuvers, gentle turns, gentle dives, gentle climbs and if and when i want to show-of i try do to whatever maneuvers i do with the plane in such a way that the plane will be more ... fluid in its flight. Having a bunch of capacitors to back up the 5V rail, i also think that adds to extending servos life.
I'm guessing that 70% (if not more) of my flights are straight (few degrees nose-up) and level (slight climb) flights in which servos are not doing much movement ... Going far 50 - 65% from the battery in a almost straight line, going back in same almost straight line, and 10 - 15% from the battery down to the deck flying ....

But, BUUUUUT i'm not good for RC business because i don't crash, i don't loose, i don't destroy planes and electronics and ... i don't buy to many planes and electronics, therefore i don't contribute with my money too much to R&D for RC FPV market unfortunately.
I have in house an F16 EDF bought in 2010 and flown intensively too, and i'll fly it any-time when i feel like, i have a Go Discover (188 - 340 km proven range capable) since 2015, and i've donated many and sold some, fully functional and fully setup (with all the electronics and at least one flight battery) just to make room to newer models. I guess that there are people who don't have washing machines, or personal vehicles that old ...
In order to RC FPV move on, and get on the market new, more efficient, more performant planes and electronics, people needs to ... crash their planes, to destroy that electronics so they will buy newer planes, newer electronics, thus contributing to R&D.
So if people will do as i do, they will end-up not contributing to RC FPV development, and that is bad! That is very bad!
Jan 15, 2020, 06:13 AM
'Extreme Fabricator'
Running in is also a good idea. I always do that with servo's, or anything with brushes.
You're not kidding with your frugal spends, I recall your APM F/C that was submerged in a previous life.. lol.

I also use Corona's in nearly every build now, as my wholesaler now carries the genuine item and I have never had a bad one.
My Emax days are over, except for the drawer full that will go into some rougher builds for my son, but I won't risk buying any more.
Jan 15, 2020, 09:15 PM
Registered User
Hi All, great thread, I’ve ordered an EVO edition. Fly quads but this will be my first wing/plane. Any advice for a beginner, specifically;

1. DJI AU mounting, I’m worried about air flow in fuselage does it need to go on top?
2. Considering a F405wing on iNav, what would be safe pids to start on? stock setup on 4s
3. Any other inav setup tips, will have a gps, dji fpv, crossfire.
Jan 16, 2020, 02:01 AM
Registered User
PaunFD's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by aero_nz
Hi All, great thread, I’ve ordered an EVO edition. Fly quads but this will be my first wing/plane. Any advice for a beginner, specifically;

1. DJI AU mounting, I’m worried about air flow in fuselage does it need to go on top?
2. Considering a F405wing on iNav, what would be safe pids to start on? stock setup on 4s
3. Any other inav setup tips, will have a gps, dji fpv, crossfire.
I would suggest to go for arduplane, but if you're think you're more familiar with inav ...

Check my posts for advice on various things regarding this plane and check the photos to see my inav PIFF's for start.
Go way back at pages 40, 60 ....

Cooling holes are more than enough, even for DJI ... I would suggest to use your imagination to find a way of installing DJI inside the fuselage, because if you install outside will add drag which will infringe over air-speed, amp draw, and overall efficiency.
Check for overall plane's AUW and make your electronics install in such a way that plane's AUW does not exceed 760g.
Jan 16, 2020, 02:12 AM
Registered User
PaunFD's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by aero_nz
Hi All, great thread, Iíve ordered an EVO edition. Fly quads but this will be my first wing/plane. Any advice for a beginner, specifically;

1. DJI AU mounting, Iím worried about air flow in fuselage does it need to go on top?
2. Considering a F405wing on iNav, what would be safe pids to start on? stock setup on 4s
3. Any other inav setup tips, will have a gps, dji fpv, crossfire.
BTW, this is not exactly suited for a first plane/wing ... IMO.
Jan 17, 2020, 08:01 AM
Registered User
PaunFD's Avatar
NTBOp on really bad weather:
NTBOp bad, bad weather (17 min 36 sec)
Jan 18, 2020, 04:50 AM
Brett
pmanu's Avatar
@PaunFD I flew my NT yesterday first time with omnibus F4 iNav and had alot of roll bouncing on right wing
and also in a turn it wanted to roll instead of turn, CG was about 40mm and no wing mods, have separate servos for rear controls and ailerons, tried CG on mark made no difference, Brett
Jan 18, 2020, 06:15 AM
Registered User
PaunFD's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmanu
@PaunFD I flew my NT yesterday first time with omnibus F4 iNav and had alot of roll bouncing on right wing
and also in a turn it wanted to roll instead of turn, CG was about 40mm and no wing mods, have separate servos for rear controls and ailerons, tried CG on mark made no difference, Brett
I'm not sure i understand roll bouncing on the right wing ... A video would be much helpful to help with diagnostics. Or please try to explain with more details, because i ... simply don't understand what you mean.
Plane was flying banked to the right?! Plane was bouncing left and right but was coming back to level in some sort of right-ish banked attitude?!

It is very hard for me to imagine how plane can bounce only on the right wing, and the left wing stands still or almost still ... If that is the case, have you inserted the carbon rod that suppose to get inside both wings thru the fuselage?!
Was the right wing properly attached to the fuselage?
If your plane does not have separate aileron servos, and is in its stock state with just one servo acting on both ailerons, have you check the control rods with their metallic screws to be properly tighten to the servo arm?
If you installed a separate aileron servo, for each aileron, have you check the servo to be properly attached to ... wherever location you chose to install it on the wings?!

Also, did you added separate servos for ailerons?
Every NT have separate servos for V-tail command surfaces, but have just only 1 servo for ailerons - so this is why i'm confused.

Plane should be balanced in the given CG marks, and v-tail command surfaces should be lifted few mm up so the plane will fly straight and level with throttle at 50%. Along-side that, FC should be level calibrated in such a way that plane is few degrees nose-up when sits on a level surface ...

As for turns ... you commanded plane to turn only from rudder stick input?! Or you have commanded plane to turn as you normally would, by banking the plane from ailerons and maintaining nose-level attitude by using elevator stick input?!
Usually, this plane will tend to roll and nose-dive if you try to turn it only by rudder input ...
For sharper turns, you can add some rudder, but main turn you do with banking the plane using ailerons, keeping the nose of the plane level - so the plane does not loose altitude in turn with elevator, and you can add some rudder to sharpen the turn ... But turning it only by rudder, will most likely not gonna works well.

As for inav: what flight mode was that you're using?! Was ... acro? was horizon, was ... angle?! was manual?!
Last edited by PaunFD; Jan 18, 2020 at 06:20 AM.
Jan 18, 2020, 10:15 PM
Brett
pmanu's Avatar
cheers for the reply

only ever fly Horizon,
it was windy today but made a quick video
seems only right wing bouncers and about 50% throttle which was hard to do today with wind
I taped up the rear fins as they seem floppy and need glueing in
same as main wind and
always comes loose on landing,
CG was bang on with camera,
plane does not waggle like other people complain about
you can see separate servos directly to control surfaces in video
I did autotune was not better
Aileron movement is 9mm up and down in Hoz mode
-----
Untitled 1 (0 min 41 sec)
------
Jan 19, 2020, 04:31 AM
Registered User
PaunFD's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmanu
cheers for the reply

only ever fly Horizon,
it was windy today but made a quick video
seems only right wing bouncers and about 50% throttle which was hard to do today with wind
I taped up the rear fins as they seem floppy and need glueing in
same as main wind and
always comes loose on landing,
CG was bang on with camera,
plane does not waggle like other people complain about
you can see separate servos directly to control surfaces in video
I did autotune was not better
Aileron movement is 9mm up and down in Hoz mode
----- https://youtu.be/K0JA9vsbA0E ------
Well ... there could be 2 ways which you should go for:
1. is to tape the wings, or to laminate them - but then, plane will behave/handle worse in turbulence. Because wings are bending in turbulence, they at this point act as shock absorbers (like in vehicle) dumping a great deal of the turbulence impact over the fuselage. You could tape only the right wing - giving it more strength so it will not bend that much.
2. is do lower the piff values, and glue the wings and v-tail fins to the fuselage.

Autotune does not give the best result for no plane ... After autotune, one should and kind off must to further tweak the PIFF's so the FC handles the plane in the way that the user wants ...
As for good inav PIFF values you should check the print-screens that i've posted on this topic ... And ... do note that the aileron movements while in flight are much more than those 9mm that you get when the plane is on the ground with motor not powered on.
Of course those PIFF values works for my plane and i'm sure there are differences in both FC type, firmware, and servos - so you should use those PIFF values of mine only as reference, and you should look to all those values on the print-screen because all those values plays a part in the way that plane feels and handles.
You should also tape the command surfaces of the rear fins too, before you glue them to the fuselage.

I ... do not care much about main wings bending, even if maybe one bends more then the other. What i consider important is ... how do i see the image in my FPV feed - fixed inside the plane - without any image stabilization - if that make sense to you.
When you drive a vehicle over a bumpy road, you don't see how wheels are bouncing and how shock absorbers do their jobs keeping the vehicle level and giving a smoother ride for the passengers inside the vehicle ... Same/similarly wings and v-tail fins have to do their part so my FPV feed gives me a smoother ride ...
TBH i would not do anything to the main wings and i would live them as they are at this moment, but again, that is up to you. - what i would do is to tweak PIFF values in such a way that the plane gives me the smoothest ride possible in the fixed FPV feed.

However, too much bending in the main wings and v-tails might worsen things, because instead of dumping turbulence effect - might increase in ... so there is a matter of balance ... Also if the main wings do bend too much, if and when flown at higher speeds (i could not see how higher speeds) wings may flutter - thus increasing the risk of destroying main wings or v-tails ... so again, there is a matter or balance and finding the exact sweet spot between strength and bending ... And that is up to you to find that sweet spot, according to whatever speed envelope you plan to fly this plane.

Hope that make sense, and helps!
Last edited by PaunFD; Jan 19, 2020 at 04:42 AM.
Jan 19, 2020, 04:57 AM
Registered User
PaunFD's Avatar
Ah i forgot: the antenna at the wingtip do add drag which needs to be compensated ... You should either add a dummy antenna to the other wing, or you should install it horizontal (yes, yes, yes I know in turns or if the plane if flown with the side towards the pilot RSSI will decrease and the end of Earth will come - ask Greta ..)

Point is that this plane is small, low power, light and every extra-drag added will heavily infringe over it's air-speed and it's efficiency ...

Because of the antenna being there your plane might want to roll to the right with increase in speed ... Think a bit ...
Jan 19, 2020, 05:02 AM
Brett
pmanu's Avatar
Cheers....Id like to glue the wings in to firm things up,
about the PIFF
first tried stock iNav
then your setting (below)
then auto tune which was so close to yours not worth changing

tomorrow is going to be a nice day....good for testing

thanks heaps.....Brett
Jan 19, 2020, 08:26 AM
Registered User
PaunFD's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmanu

thanks heaps.....Brett
Good luck! Have fun!
Jan 19, 2020, 05:21 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaunFD
NTBOp on really bad weather:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYTt-qluxMw
PaunFD, very nice picture you have here although it's very bad weather.
Is it split v2 or something else?
Will you recommended this camera for new NT?


Quick Reply
Message:

Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New Product Talon MINI FPV plane--official thread FPVSTYLE FPV Aircraft 16268 Today 10:50 AM
New Product ZOHD Nano Talon 860mm, ZOHD Orbit Wing & ZOHD Dart Sweepforward Wing 635mm D Gains FPV Aircraft 242 Aug 16, 2019 02:06 AM
New Product ZOHD Nano Talon 860mm Wingspan AIO HD V-Tail EPP FPV RC Airplane BGjim Flying Wings 53 Mar 21, 2018 08:02 AM
Build Log Nano Spec Ultra V3 1M DLG (Official Thread) RHX138 Hand Launch 24 Dec 29, 2017 05:25 PM