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Jun 26, 2017, 10:54 AM
Open the bay doors... HAL
DJI27's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by BuffaloJustin
A nerve seems to have been touched. I wonder why?
Hmm... looks like DJI might be summoning the troops.
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Jun 26, 2017, 10:58 AM
Registered User
techspy's Avatar
Wow! A lot of good info coming out in here! FYI it seems FW 900 is supported now for certain features just not the NFZ yet. That will be awesome for those that want the full feature set for the Goggles etc.

Hmmm, complete images for the Mavic? That is interesting.
Jun 26, 2017, 11:02 AM
Open the bay doors... HAL
DJI27's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad_angler1
No nerve I just want people to know this is not just install a patch and everything is brilliant as we don not know and there will be implications.

I have bigger issue with the cost tbh, it's a lot of coin but I would not pay it anyway when it's based on work people have been doing for free.

Again I have modded everything from Xbox to toaster so I'm not against i would just say be aware of everything.

As I said before I knew about this before almost everyone so I know exactly how this works so that's it good luck and stay safe.
Pro-DJI talking to Pro-DJI here of all places ... Hmm... guess the Official Mavic thread must be slow.
Jun 26, 2017, 11:11 AM
Registered User
techspy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJI27
Hmm... guess the Official Mavic thread must be slow.
Yep, they are still talking about cake! Funny that the "righteous" still have yet to complain about getting back on topic and stop cluttering the thread. LOL

I do think it is interesting that there seems to be more involvement from the managers in that thread now. Certainly seems like this topic has been "noticed".
Jun 26, 2017, 11:14 AM
Open the bay doors... HAL
DJI27's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quad808
Guys...
This was meant to be a thread where if you had questions about this mod, or have done this mod to post the results. It just seems like discussion of this mod is being shut down on other boards.

I didn't mean this to turn into a Mod or don't mod argument, although that is a good discussion and some great points have been made.
I also am not telling you to mod or not to mod. That choice would be up to you, and it is also up to you to be informed as much as possible before you plunk down your hard earned $$ for this. It isn't cheap. Was I worried about the "unknown hacker types" in Russia offering this after I paid...absolutely! Who wouldn't be? I took my own steps to mitigate any losses I might incur..if any.

If you want to ask questions about the process, or the performance gains ask away. I just did the mod yesterday and have only flown a couple of test flights without issues, and that doesn't mean that there are any, or aren't. I just haven't found any yet. If I do, I will post them.

It may seem like it, but I am not here to defend CopterSafe, (I don't know them other than emailing support) or encourage anyone to mod their Mavic. That is totally your choice, as it is your choice to upgrade your firmware on your Mavic or not.

I will not answer any more personal attacks or innuendos pointed at me. Thats just childish.
Good for you ... it's obvious what going on.

Proponents of DJI want to crush this thread and they'll go after anyone that disagrees with them.

P.S. Keep allowing dissenting opinions and your thread will do fine.... stifle them and whats happening on the Official Mavic thread will happen here also.
Jun 26, 2017, 11:22 AM
Open the bay doors... HAL
DJI27's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by techspy
Funny how people got butt hurt in the other thread and kept saying take the talk somewhere else. Then when another thread was created they just could not help themselves. Unlike the other thread, I welcome opinions and views from ALL perspectives. I just hope they say their piece and stop cluttering this thread. On that subject, as much as people were losing their minds about the other thread being cluttered, there is about a page of off topic posts about cake etc. today and not ONE complaint! LOL It is funny how that can't follow their own advice when it doesn't fit with their agenda.

Anyway, if I go with this mod I will have accepted the fact that I could be out of the cost of the mod and possibly a Mavic if it gets bricked (I doubt that happening as of now). Worst case I buy another stand alone Mavic and move on. I sure won't be here crying about it.
Something tells me "cluttering up" this thread is practice "the other" thread has as tool in their arsenal.... boy I gotta stop looking for conspiracies
Jun 26, 2017, 11:25 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by techspy
Yep, they are still talking about cake! Funny that the "righteous" still have yet to complain about getting back on topic and stop cluttering the thread. LOL
Maybe it wasn't the right kind of cake?
Jun 26, 2017, 11:29 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJI27
No such thing as an impregnable defense .... ask the French about the Maginot Line.

The Germans just went right around it... maybe DJI's Maginot Line isn't what its made out to be.
.
Things are definitely going to get interesting... DJI is definitely taking an interest
I developed embedded software... your analogy is pointless, sorry. DJI owns all endpoints, and they can make CopterSafe life very hard, if they decide to do so. Then again, they might decide not to

One thing is to break relatively open systems where the developer doesn't own all end points (say, DRM on a PC, very, very hard to do without proper hardware and OS support). Another is to break an undocumented system where the developer (DJI in this case) owns all end points, finding flaws to exploit.

Video games are a better (albeit not perfect) analogy: video game machines are semi-open systems (fully documented, third party developer kits) with some level of protection. There are also very big bucks to be made in pirating videogames, so work around have been found. Sony and Microsoft plug holes, and new work around are found (so far, not for the Xbox One). Point is, there are teams of very motivated hackers doing it, since the reward is huge

Breaking into someone else's code is hard and takes time and resources. I doubt that the market for a $450 hack that adds limited functionality (for most users) is big enough to justify huge time commitment. If DJI decided to make it hard, how long before the developers of CopterSafe just give up and keep the money they made so far? Each business look at a return on investment basis: if you already made enough money and it takes too much to make more, you move on

I really have no problems with CopterSafe or the people buying the unlock. As long as people understand what they are getting and the risks, that is
Jun 26, 2017, 12:00 PM
Registered User
GlennGoodlett's Avatar
There are few guarantees in life, but, I like cake over here too.
Jun 26, 2017, 12:08 PM
Open the bay doors... HAL
DJI27's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quad808
Couple of things for more information..found a youtube video and I have attached a quick review from a poster in MavicPilots before the thread was deleted. I'm still trying to figure that one out. Anyway...here they are for information.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGz41rDW-BQ
This kid has a nice matter of fact way of speaking... video answered a lot of questions for me.

P.S. Always loved the English accent... looking forward to future videos he's talking about making.

P.S.S. It was hilarious how he flashed the # reference up on the screen half way into the video.
Jun 26, 2017, 12:09 PM
Must Stop Buying More Stuff
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJI27
Quad808,

I think Mad genuinely believes he's helping pilots decide on the wisdom of the CopterSafe Mods but when someone touts only the risky side of things and doesn't give equal time to all the good things provided by the Mods it apparent which side of the fence he's on.

He's a good contributor in all the DJI threads... expect him to be one here also.

P.S. Drop me a PM....
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJI27
Good for you ... it's obvious what going on.

Proponents of DJI want to crush this thread and they'll go after anyone that disagrees with them.

P.S. Keep allowing dissenting opinions and your thread will do fine.... stifle them and whats happening on the Official Mavic thread will happen here also.
Yes...thanks. I also think that Mad is trying to help and if he reads this, I encourage him to post here - along with anyone else. Just no cake.....too late!!
Discussion is what I am trying to start. If the Mod is not right for you, say so! If you feel the Mod is not right for other people...well...you can't control what other people do, and that is kind of the point of the coptersafe mod isn't it??

Anyway...thanks for contributing. I enjoy reading others opinions...as long as there are no personal attacks. We all have something to bring to the discussion.
Jun 26, 2017, 12:10 PM
Must Stop Buying More Stuff
Quote:
Originally Posted by wings6
maybe it wasn't the right kind of cake? :d
best picture ever!!! Lol!!!
+1!!
Jun 26, 2017, 12:22 PM
Must Stop Buying More Stuff
Quote:
Originally Posted by robca
I developed embedded software... your analogy is pointless, sorry. DJI owns all endpoints, and they can make CopterSafe life very hard, if they decide to do so. Then again, they might decide not to

One thing is to break relatively open systems where the developer doesn't own all end points (say, DRM on a PC, very, very hard to do without proper hardware and OS support). Another is to break an undocumented system where the developer (DJI in this case) owns all end points, finding flaws to exploit.

Video games are a better (albeit not perfect) analogy: video game machines are semi-open systems (fully documented, third party developer kits) with some level of protection. There are also very big bucks to be made in pirating videogames, so work around have been found. Sony and Microsoft plug holes, and new work around are found (so far, not for the Xbox One). Point is, there are teams of very motivated hackers doing it, since the reward is huge

Breaking into someone else's code is hard and takes time and resources. I doubt that the market for a $450 hack that adds limited functionality (for most users) is big enough to justify huge time commitment. If DJI decided to make it hard, how long before the developers of CopterSafe just give up and keep the money they made so far? Each business look at a return on investment basis: if you already made enough money and it takes too much to make more, you move on

I really have no problems with CopterSafe or the people buying the unlock. As long as people understand what they are getting and the risks, that is
Great points....I figure that it took CopterSafe a lot of work to figure this all out. I don't think that DJI's code changed that drastically in the past year that they left big holes in it that they stumbled upon, but I don't know much about coding and breaking code. Heck...I have no idea how this "patch" or "mod" operates anyway. I have heard two theories, and I would like to hear your take on it:
It's just a "simple" change to a param file they were able to access or (simple is relative...once they gained access)
they installed a "firewall" type program that blocks certain information from getting to the control software, like the NFZ info. Total guess.

People are taking steps to make VM snapshots of current firmware to prevent DJI from pulling older firmware that is supported and patching it so the "mod" won't work and you will still be able to upgrade/downgrade. This is a good news. I fully expect DJI to fix whatever it is that allows this "mod" to work, unless it would take too much resources. They may not even care, since it is only fully working now on .400 and .700, and they are working on .900, but that is not supposed to be able to nullify the NFZ block. There is a facebook page that I can find out what the latest scoops are. I will post any info here.
Jun 26, 2017, 12:46 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJI27
This kid has a nice matter of fact way of speaking... video answered a lot of questions for me.

P.S. Always loved the English accent... looking forward to future videos he's talking about making.

P.S.S. It was hilarious how he flashed the # reference up on the screen half way into the video.
Good explanation of the process, it was just disappointing that he focused on, and demonstrated, the illegal ways to use the mod when there are perfectly legitimate and legal uses for both the NFZ and the altitude mods.

For example I can see someone wanting to lift a NFZ in the GEO database that doesn't match the actual NFZ...

... or if you are standing at the foot of a mountain and flying up close to the ground you would have a good reason to lift the altitude limit yet still remain legal. (not many mountains close to London though of course )

These mods are not all bad, but doing what he did isn't really helping sadly.
Jun 26, 2017, 03:22 PM
Must Stop Buying More Stuff
Quote:
Originally Posted by Telrin
Good explanation of the process, it was just disappointing that he focused on, and demonstrated, the illegal ways to use the mod when there are perfectly legitimate and legal uses for both the NFZ and the altitude mods.

For example I can see someone wanting to lift a NFZ in the GEO database that doesn't match the actual NFZ...

... or if you are standing at the foot of a mountain and flying up close to the ground you would have a good reason to lift the altitude limit yet still remain legal. (not many mountains close to London though of course )

These mods are not all bad, but doing what he did isn't really helping sadly.
I agree, but I guess it is now a case of PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY and not the DJI Nanny state. The patched craft has now become no different than an open source flight controller, as far as restrictions, or lack there of.
The pilot is now responsible for anything that they do, which in my opinion, should be the case. (My use of caps is not directed at you, or your post)
I think my favorite part of the video is when he says: "..The DJI....Mavic... is now ours, not theirs. It belongs to US."


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