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May 18, 2017, 01:15 PM
Little green man
Quote:
Originally Posted by flycatch
The poster I14R10 started posting in 2014 and IMO is just a troll.
OK. so let's see what I've been trolling

This thread - asking questions and advices about landing a plane
Should I find another flying site? (images inside) asking opinions about my flying/landing site

FrSky RSSI weird, but not trolling. I was confused about RSSI and finally found out that it works

Long range radio control asking questions and advices on long range RC control

Portable TV as FPV monitor wanted to ask about using portable TV as FPV monitor, but found out there is thread about it justa few posts below

Building your own FPV plane found out local cheap company that does laser cuts out of balsa and got excited of the opportunity to build my own plane

Using spirit level to balance plane didn't know exactly how precise CG should be and asked about using spirit level to check if the plane is flat

Check my FPV system asking opinions about FPV equipment that I was planning to buy


Today was my first (half ) successful flight got excited about my first flight and wanted to write about it

Trainstar tough trainer or AXN floater asking opinions about two planes


So this is trolling? Sorry about asking a lot of questions, about being enthusiastic about this hobby, sorry about being excited about something. Yes, I sometimes write weird stuff, yes my native language is not english, yes I was never good at writing stuff. I do my best. And I try not to insult people. Unlike you
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May 18, 2017, 01:58 PM
Little green man
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmetcalf
Sounds like you should consider getting a pilot's license. The danger of confining your activities to FPV might be the enticement to go higher and higher, until you find yourself at an altitude considered to be intrusion into federal airspace - an area garnering much attention from the FAA these days, usually associated with drone flyers, and changing the hobby scene for all of us.

Normal RC flying tends to self-regulate, as you can only get so far away before you lose orientation.
That would be great job, but I've already made my decision about my career. FPV will remain just a hobby. I understand all the dangers of flying high. Last time I've been about 200m high and that seems fine for me. No need of going higher.
May 18, 2017, 03:02 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by I14R10
Landing line of sight - believe it or not, I can't do it right 99% of the time. FPV landing, I nailed it the first time I did it. And every time after that. I don't really know what's wrong with me, but for the life of me, I can't do it line of sight.

Yeah, I can imagine you would not want to crash into a tree when you fly real plane.
Line of sight is more difficult because you are not "in the plots seat". When flying FPV right is always right and left is always left. For myself landing a plane FPV would be difficult because of the different field of view and judging altitude for landing. Wouldn't matter too much for a belly landing plane though.

If you get an OSD that shows airspeed you would probably find it easier. Then you could find the planes stall speed and have better control for a good stable approach.

One time I had my FPV gear on a big glow powered trainer. I let a friend wear the goggles while I flew around. Then I came in for a landing, after I landed and was taxiing my friend said "we should be close to landing now?"
May 19, 2017, 07:03 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmetcalf
I don't think a chart like this is much help to a beginning RC pilot.
Point is, is that the RC pilot should work on getting his landing patterns organised, so when the airplane is on final all he has to do is keep the thing on the desired flight path--the one he has already lined up.
Another point to make is to avoid overbanking the airplane on the turn to final to line up to the runway. Make a gentle S turn to get it positioned.
The rule in full size planes was to not bank it more than 20* when you are slowed down in the pattern.
May 19, 2017, 11:55 PM
Registered User
wmetcalf's Avatar
I have found that trying to duplicate exactly what I do in my 1:1 plane is usually only partly successful with a model. It's pretty tough to execute a precise traffic pattern with a model because all you have to work with is a "sight picture." Depth perception actually disappears when you get beyond something like, I think, 30-40 yards. You can't use ground reference for position like you can from a cockpit. Ironically, a sight picture is part of landing any real aircraft. You place the landing point on the runway in your windscreen, and if that picture moves out of place you use appropriate control inputs to put it back into place again. If the picture remains in a fixed position on your windscreen during the approach, anyone looking at the aircraft from the ground would see it appear to "slide down a string" all the way to the flare. Exactly the same picture we need to see our models replicating on final.

It's even more challenging to try to get a model to hit precise points over the ground in a landing pattern. There is no reference to work with. For someone like myself, who is vision-challenged, the best I can do is to try to fly a pattern that looks to be similar each time.

I try to deliver the model to the same relative place against a background or over a certain landmark every time I land. I can get a pretty good sense of how far out the model is by judging it's size. From this "initial point" I can set up the plane for it's approach and landing using a practiced technique.

Once I start down the glide slope from this initial point I keep the aircraft relatively flat, and use small rudder movements, with a bit of opposite aileron, to adjust the plane laterally. This is opposite from what a real plane does, as we are actually cross-controlling, which would put a real plane in danger of stalling low to the ground. We can never achieve perfection of course. Wind and errors in judgement will work to prevent that. So it's always a challenge.

Just as in 1:1 aviation, practicing procedures gives us a chance to achieve success.
May 20, 2017, 06:14 AM
Registered User
Grup's Avatar
Seems like a lot of 1:1 pilots try to relate their experience in real planes to model planes, but real planes have some more information available than model planes. I've never seen any "carb heat" on any of my planes, I don't know the rpms at any time, I don't have a flap %.

There's a lot more eyballing vs seat of the pants with models. So, yes, "its the same", at the same time "its' different".

Regards
May 20, 2017, 08:08 AM
Registered User
wmetcalf's Avatar
Yes, I have always felt it's harder to fly a model well than it is to fly my Home-built!
May 20, 2017, 01:46 PM
Drone offender FA377YHFNC
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grup
Seems like a lot of 1:1 pilots try to relate their experience in real planes to model planes, but real planes have some more information available than model planes. I've never seen any "carb heat" on any of my planes, I don't know the rpms at any time, I don't have a flap %.

There's a lot more eyballing vs seat of the pants with models. So, yes, "its the same", at the same time "its' different".

Regards
Well, there are some GENERAL things we can take from the 1:1 experience. For instance, if you look at the chart, when you reduce throttle to begin the descent is as you cross the runway threshold on downwind, not after you turn to final. The goal in 1:1 is that you should set your throttle for descent at that point and not have to touch it until the wheels go squeak on the runway threshold. Of course minor adjustments are almost always necessary, but that's the stretch goal on landing.

Not having to mess with the throttle for the final two turns simplifies your task. Any minor adjustments can be done while on final.
May 20, 2017, 03:06 PM
Registered User
Grup's Avatar
I'm still trying to figure out the throttle setting for landing; it's a bit different for each plane so one thing I've started to do is fly only one plane at a time.

I find actual setting ends up being more about establishing a sink rate, rather than a particular % of throttle. That's because I prefer to watch the plane rather than look down at the Tx. I've tried estimating throttle setting via feel only, and have found that method isn't very accurate.

Regards
May 20, 2017, 08:30 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grup
I'm still trying to figure out the throttle setting for landing; it's a bit different for each plane so one thing I've started to do is fly only one plane at a time.

I find actual setting ends up being more about establishing a sink rate, rather than a particular % of throttle. That's because I prefer to watch the plane rather than look down at the Tx. I've tried estimating throttle setting via feel only, and have found that method isn't very accurate.

Regards
That's right to set the throttle for the decent rate you need, not to try for some fixed % of throttle. The amount of power you need for a shallow approach will be different than for a steep approach. And the power setting will change with the amount of flaps you are using too, if you have them.
May 20, 2017, 08:43 PM
Registered User
None of my planes have flaps so I just approach from far off and cut the throttle and glide in and flare right before I touchdown, and if I am short of the runway I'll give it a little throttle to bump it along.
May 21, 2017, 12:03 PM
Registered User
wmetcalf's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grup
I'm still trying to figure out the throttle setting for landing; it's a bit different for each plane so one thing I've started to do is fly only one plane at a time.

I find actual setting ends up being more about establishing a sink rate, rather than a particular % of throttle. That's because I prefer to watch the plane rather than look down at the Tx. I've tried estimating throttle setting via feel only, and have found that method isn't very accurate.

Regards
You confirm what I have been emphasizing (perhaps not clearly enough). The RC game is played largely via a sight picture from outside the airplane. The sight picture is the only real feedback we get. There isn't even any actual feedback from the TX. We move a stick or control and watch to see what the plane does. We can sense what the wind is like as we stand in it, but it's effect on the aircraft must be gauged by watching the plane itself

This makes common 1:1 procedures, like reducing throttle to "X" rpm at "X" position in the pattern irrelevant. What we do share are the principles of general positioning for approach, aircraft attitude, and control techniques for maneuvering the aircraft. This may sound a bit over-simplified, but when you get to a point where the approach and landing sight picture looks pretty much the same for every landing you have won a large percentage of the battle. From there, mistakes can be identified and improvements made. The goal is consistency. The remark about flying just one plane is wise. When I am rusty I do the same thing to get back into shape before risking other birds.
May 22, 2017, 03:20 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmetcalf
You confirm what I have been emphasizing (perhaps not clearly enough). The RC game is played largely via a sight picture from outside the airplane. The sight picture is the only real feedback we get. There isn't even any actual feedback from the TX. We move a stick or control and watch to see what the plane does. We can sense what the wind is like as we stand in it, but it's effect on the aircraft must be gauged by watching the plane itself

This makes common 1:1 procedures, like reducing throttle to "X" rpm at "X" position in the pattern irrelevant. What we do share are the principles of general positioning for approach, aircraft attitude, and control techniques for maneuvering the aircraft. This may sound a bit over-simplified, but when you get to a point where the approach and landing sight picture looks pretty much the same for every landing you have won a large percentage of the battle. From there, mistakes can be identified and improvements made. The goal is consistency. The remark about flying just one plane is wise. When I am rusty I do the same thing to get back into shape before risking other birds.
I always bring multiple planes and fly them all (so I don't get rusty on them) and never have problems. Just keep an eye on your plane and make adjustments as you come in for your landing. There is no correct throttle percent it will always change based on wind, updrafts, down drafts, you just have to watch what the plane is doing and keep it in line (speed, glide slope, direction).
May 22, 2017, 05:52 PM
Registered User
MacKaris's Avatar
Yeah if you're looking for some specific golden throttle setting for each or any plane, you're doing something wrong. I personally work the throttle pretty much like I work all the other controls, and in doing so I maintain a constant "feel" with what the plane is doing. I never just set the throttle to something and then just leave it be. On landing I either just cut the throttle, do a shallow dive to the deck, level and put in some throttle again for a smooth touchdown, or alternatively I bring the model in from a bit further away by playing with the throttle and elevator for a more powered descend. The end result is more or less the same, though.
May 23, 2017, 08:44 AM
Registered User
wmetcalf's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ready2Crash
I always bring multiple planes and fly them all (so I don't get rusty on them) and never have problems. Just keep an eye on your plane and make adjustments as you come in for your landing. There is no correct throttle percent it will always change based on wind, updrafts, down drafts, you just have to watch what the plane is doing and keep it in line (speed, glide slope, direction).
Why would you only want to fly one plane?

Remember, we are talking about beginners who are on the early section of the learning curve. Having an aircraft whose flight characteristics are unchanging introduces a known entity that allows the pilot to concentrate on procedures. Errors in technique are detected more easily.

It's easy to forget how foreign all this once seemed if you have any experience at all. As a Private Pilot, Experimental aircraft builder, and experienced free-flight modeler, I had a pretty good understanding of how to build, trim, and fly an airplane. This gave me an advantage. I was able to cobb together my own simple foam trainers to start with. Still, as I was just becoming familiar with the many aspects of the hobby I was grateful to have an aircraft with known and unchanging flight characteristics, as I explored things like learning to operate the Tx, getting a sense of how much power the plane had, how it handled the wind (and how easy it was to allow it to be blown downwind!), how hard it was to set up an approach. And this was VERY challenging at first as I had built only 3-CH models, with no ailerons. As a trained pilot I sure missed ailerons! But these simple models also helped me learn about the new brushless motor systems, LIPOs, and electronics, and many other aspects of the hobby.

Because I made myself stay with a known system - one plane at a time- I was able to quickly advance. After a couple of variations of the 3-CH models I was soon able to construct models with ailerons - models that could rival the performance of any comparable factory plane.

After one season of this I was ready for my first factory plane. I chose the Multiplex Fun Cub because of what I read about it. I had to build it, but because I now had a pretty good understanding of what went INSIDE an RC model, I was able to choose my own equipment and power system, and getting everything together and ready to fly was pretty easy.

A major thing I still had to learn was the difference between flying a model that weighed 7 oz., and a model that weighed more than four times as much. The big lesson to be learned there was directly related to my 1:1 flying activities: ENERGY MANAGEMENT.
I soon learned that I had to think ahead of this bird - much more so than I had to do with my lightweight trainers. There was no more instantaneously pulling my bacon out of the fire with a monstrous power-to-weight performance capability. And I paid the price for my unfamiliarity, more than once!

I soon had to learn about how to repair a factory foam airplane! This Fun Cub was an excellent choice and provided over two years of enjoyable flying in all kinds of conditions, and was the first model that allowed me to feel like a real pilot, and use the same techniques I was used to in a 1:1 airplane. I continued to fly it after I had built and flown other ARFs. It was just such a great performing airplane - allowing me to build confidence when I occasionally needed it, and allowing me to fly in winds that would have terrified me in my earlier days.

My methods would not be for everyone. But they worked very well.


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