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May 17, 2017, 05:49 PM
Learn to build with wood.
Tucci's Avatar
Well, at least it resembles a proper trainer! The good thing is, it requires a shorter approach than a jet or warbird.

In my opinion, it's important to slow down in the down wind leg before you make the turn. That way you're not busy with the throttle when you're trying to line it up.

Practice finding the stall speed with enough altitude to recover, then just keep in mind that you want to be going just a little faster than that right before you land!
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May 17, 2017, 06:19 PM
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wmetcalf's Avatar
The procedures mentioned are correct. The sight picture of your plane on final should look like it is sliding straight down a string all the way to the flare, with very little change in attitude. The angle may be steep, shallow, or somewhere in between, depending upon your landing area or your intentions. Slight adjustments may be made to account for winds or poor judgement, but the goal is a stabilized approach. This sounds very simple, but it takes much practice to achieve on a consistent basis.

Landing is not a skill you learn and then forever do it perfectly. You may know all there is to know about HOW to do it, but doing it perfectly every time will always remain a challenge. Be glad. Landing is one of aviation's most engaging aspects - like trying to get a hole-in-one. It can keep you entertained for a long time after you're tired of doing rolls and loops.

Studying 1:1 flying procedures will directly translate to flying an RC model. Or you can just see it as a toy and get it down any way you can.
May 17, 2017, 08:16 PM
Registered User
+1 on the above.
A stabilized approach means that your airplane is positioned correctly relative to the runway. it's at the right altitude, the power is set for the "glide" down (usually not really a glide, even a Cessna is flown down under power) and any other variable is set for landing--flaps, etc.
The reason for the stabilized approach is that it puts the MINIMUM workload on the pilot on final.
My full scale flying club printed a cheat sheet handout for Cessna 172s that showed trainee pilots what altitude he needed to be in various areas of the "pattern".
These included RPMs, and flap settings.
Also turn points and sight lines relative to the runway. This could be adapted quite well to other airports, I found out.
Your job as the model airplane test pilot, is to figure out where you need to turn the airplane, and what throttle settings you need.
If the approach doesn't look right you can hit the gas and go around and try something different.
You should be spending pretty much all the time you can, figuring out a systematic and repeatable way to land your airplane.
Chopping the throttle at 50 ft and diving at the ground from random directions will get you only so far. Well, you'll get a place of infamy on YouTube with your heavy warbird.
Landing IS the most important maneuver you will EVER perform in a flight.
May 17, 2017, 08:21 PM
yank and bank!!
It depends on the plane and the pilot.

If you try to land a plane with a forward velocity below it's stall speed because there is some wind and that wind dies down, you and the plane are going to have a very bad day.

If you try to land a plane at a speed lower than it's control surfaces have an effect in, you and the plane are going to have a bad day.

If you try to get the plane really low to the ground with a lot of speed before landing you better be very good at high speed ground handling and have lots of runway.

What I'm trying to say is there is no cut and dried solution. Every plane has a flight envelope and the beginning of that landing needs to occur somewhere in that envelope.

I'm also not sure how many of us really know how to make things as ideal as possible with a plane. I have planes that initially landed either at warp speed or very heavily until I got the CG a bit less nose heavy.... but I also learned how to read the plane's behavior to know where the CG should not be at, especially considering how bad tail heaviness can be. Now, my previously fastest landing plane lands like a properly set up trainer.


I still think a plane owner should consider seeing what kind of speeds his plane can remain in stable controlled flight in while that plane has plenty of altitude so they can get the plane out of trouble if they read it wrong.

Not an expert here, nor did I stay in any hotel last night
May 17, 2017, 08:34 PM
Registered User
Ooops I was wrong, its a Cessna 150. Made a long time ago, but you get the idea.
May 17, 2017, 10:42 PM
Registered User
wmetcalf's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by failboat
It depends on the plane and the pilot.

If you try to land a plane with a forward velocity below it's stall speed because there is some wind and that wind dies down, you and the plane are going to have a very bad day.

If you try to land a plane at a speed lower than it's control surfaces have an effect in, you and the plane are going to have a bad day.

If you try to get the plane really low to the ground with a lot of speed before landing you better be very good at high speed ground handling and have lots of runway.

What I'm trying to say is there is no cut and dried solution. Every plane has a flight envelope and the beginning of that landing needs to occur somewhere in that envelope.

I'm also not sure how many of us really know how to make things as ideal as possible with a plane. I have planes that initially landed either at warp speed or very heavily until I got the CG a bit less nose heavy.... but I also learned how to read the plane's behavior to know where the CG should not be at, especially considering how bad tail heaviness can be. Now, my previously fastest landing plane lands like a properly set up trainer.


I still think a plane owner should consider seeing what kind of speeds his plane can remain in stable controlled flight in while that plane has plenty of altitude so they can get the plane out of trouble if they read it wrong.

Not an expert here, nor did I stay in any hotel last night
Yes, but that's a lot for a beginner to swallow. Knowing what you ultimately want to produce gives you a goal to shoot for and an idea of what it looks like. Between knowing what you want to see and actually getting to that point is all the stuff that beginners, who don't know much about aviation, are going to have to learn and experience. It's why most beginners, even pilots, require more time than they initially think to get a handle on all of it.
May 17, 2017, 11:00 PM
Registered User
wmetcalf's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Lotus
Ooops I was wrong, its a Cessna 150. Made a long time ago, but you get the idea.
I don't think a chart like this is much help to a beginning RC pilot. There's a big disconnect between the procedures on that chart, which are oriented to someone who is seated inside an airplane full of instruments and controls, and the procedures used by an RC pilot who is visually doing all these things outside the craft, usually from relatively long distances. Untold small numbers of errors in control, errors that would be very apparent to a pilot seated inside an aircraft, will usually occur during a model's flight, and no one will even notice.

An approach profile being flown by an RC pilot is probably perceived as being relatively simple in comparison. You must deal with speed reduction, sometimes gear and flap extensions, and setting up the angle of approach. That can seem complex, depending upon how adept the flyer is with his radio, and how much RC experience He/She has at that point, but it simply isn't as complex as operating even a simple general aviation aircraft with all it's controls, recommended or required altitudes, turn positions, radio calls, and traffic awareness. And a certain level of perfection is EXPECTED.

That said, IMO, there is much value in following many of the same procedures and techniques used in the 1:1 world.
May 18, 2017, 03:11 AM
Little green man
Thanks guys. I will try your advices next time I try to land. Also, as I already told, I am flying only through FPV. Am I missing some important skill if I never learn line of sight landing?
May 18, 2017, 04:23 AM
Learn to build with wood.
Tucci's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by I14R10
Thanks guys. I will try your advices next time I try to land. Also, as I already told, I am flying only through FPV. Am I missing some important skill if I never learn line of sight landing?
Yes. Unless you plan on flying everything you own in the future FPV!

One other thing: all this theory and advice is great, but the ONLY thing that will make your landings better is practice.

When I first learned to fly, I spent 2-3 months doing nothing but taking off, doing one circuit, and landing for the first 3 to 4 flights of the day.
Last edited by Tucci; May 18, 2017 at 04:28 AM.
May 18, 2017, 04:36 AM
Little green man
Yes, I only plan on flying FPV. I really like flying high, straight and just looking at the scenery.
May 18, 2017, 05:22 AM
An itch?. Scratch build.
eflightray's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by I14R10
Yes, I only plan on flying FPV. I really like flying high, straight and just looking at the scenery.
Still a good idea to practice flying and landing with the camera turned off, just in case one day it, or another part of the video system fails.


Ray.
May 18, 2017, 11:08 AM
Registered User
wmetcalf's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by I14R10
Yes, I only plan on flying FPV. I really like flying high, straight and just looking at the scenery.
Sounds like you should consider getting a pilot's license. The danger of confining your activities to FPV might be the enticement to go higher and higher, until you find yourself at an altitude considered to be intrusion into federal airspace - an area garnering much attention from the FAA these days, usually associated with drone flyers, and changing the hobby scene for all of us.

Normal RC flying tends to self-regulate, as you can only get so far away before you lose orientation.
May 18, 2017, 12:14 PM
Registered User
The poster I14R10 started posting in 2014 and IMO is just a troll.
May 18, 2017, 12:45 PM
Drone offender FA377YHFNC
Quote:
Originally Posted by flycatch
The poster I14R10 started posting in 2014 and IMO is just a troll.
I don't have any problem with his posting in different threads in the past week or so. If you're going to attack somebody, the burden of proof is on you to supply inarguable evidence. Failure to do so should result in moderator action against you. This is a good thread and you're trying to drop a bomb on it. We don't need unprovoked attacks making a naked claim such as "this person is a troll" without visible means of support.

Interestingly, i14r10's posts here have not been trolls, but your post is about 110% troll. Pointing a finger at someone else leaves three fingers in your hand pointing back at you.
May 18, 2017, 12:52 PM
Drone offender FA377YHFNC
Quote:
Originally Posted by eflightray
Still a good idea to practice flying and landing with the camera turned off, just in case one day it, or another part of the video system fails.


Ray.
Plus a thousand or so. Backup plans are good. I'm convinced that knowing both ways of flying will make you a better pilot with either method.


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