Thread Tools
May 04, 2017, 03:11 PM
Registered User
Thread OP

Master Thesis at TU Graz (Austria) is working on solving a long standing problem

Hello fellow Fxx friends!

For a long time now various people made the effort to create an automated crossing detector. So far really great achievements have been made on the optical side. With software like FxxTrack, FCD and now MotoCam some cheap and reliable systems have been created.
Unfortunately these are not suitable for competition use as their detection rate is >90%, which is very good, but sadly not good enough. For competition use we need something like >99,95% detection rate.
So alternative methods of detection have been proposed.
Jürgen, the creator of FCD, has already made great efforts in the past to introduce a new system which is based on electromagnetic waves (radio frequency).
While such a system is vastly more complicated to put together it may yield a detection rate which is much more suitable for competitions.
No matter where the sun is or how many insects or flying around, this system should not be affected by it. Also the first 6 legs turns in F5B have always been a great challenge for video systems. Even under ideal conditions planes where only a few pixles in size and thus almost impossible to detect.
However, with a range of a few hundred meters the RF-based system should be much more reliable.

In the mean time Jürgen has become some help, as one student at the Austrian University TU Graz has started a master thesis on this topic. In collaboration with the Institute of Microwave and Photonic Engineering ( this student has some great knowledge behind him.
After many calculations and simulations the project is ready to move into the prototyping phase. Thats where we need the help of fellow enthusiasts.
High frequency components are not as cheap as one might think and we need to provide this student with money to keep the project going or it will stop in its "theoretical" phase.

We set up a crowdfunding campaign and we hope that by combing the funds of many small contributions we can keep pushing this forward.
The link to the page can be found here:

For those who can or do not want to contribute through you can wire the money directly to Gernot (the initiator of the campaign).
SEPA transaction:
Gernot Tengg, Sackgasse 1, 8077 Thondorf
Iban: AT513822300000193672
Bic: RZSTAT2G223
Reference: Projekt TU-Graz


Credit card:

So far 500€ have been raised. If all of us would give a little, this would be over in a few days, but I know that not everyone can or wants to support financially. So if you want to help regardless then please share this message. Also into other communities. Not just F5B. Also F3F, F3B, F5D,....etc

What can people expect from this?
So far we are just looking to build a functioning device that can detect and reliable signal the crossing of the B-base.
The scope of the master thesis is to build such a device. If a functioning prototype has been made further efforts can be done so that it might be used in a competition some time in the future.
Please don't expect a completely functioning system within 6 months. No, we need to be realistic about such endeavors. A lot of things have to be considered.
Consider the money you spent as a contribution and as a little help for fellow enthusiasts who try to push something like this forward.
But with your help, maybe one day we can have such a system which not only reduces the amount of helpers needed for a contest, such a task could then be done by an electronic device much more accurately and much more reliably. Consider this vision.

Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
May 05, 2017, 05:02 AM
Grow old disgracefully!
dickw's Avatar
I am in.
This project sounds like something I have been thinking about but don't have the expertise to actually make happen. Good move to get some experts working on it.

May 05, 2017, 09:21 AM
Registered User

First Support from England:



Update of all Sponsors:

New bank balance: EUR 1.200,-

I hope there will be others who follow you sponsoring this Project.

Best regards, Gernot Tengg
Last edited by Gernot_Tengg; May 05, 2017 at 11:05 AM.
May 06, 2017, 05:37 AM
Registered User
Update 06.05.2017:

2 Supporters via PayPal:

George Shering 100,-
Werner Gölz EUR 50,-

May 07, 2017, 07:03 PM
Registered User

Laser, Optical or RF TWTF?


Aside from $, I'm very interested and we here in San Diego have given some thought to this topic. General approaches we've considered include :

1) Ground Based Spinning Laser (aka the supermarket checkout approach). This would require suitable reflectors place on the models to reflect at all attitudes. The spinning laser would have to be constrained to transmit from straight out to straight up assuming the transmitter was on the Base and Safety Line. Obviously being on the course might be hazardous to people! I have some expert opinion that 800 to 900 nm (infrared) is optimum for daylight detection. May take upwards of 1 watt (?).

2) RF Two-Way-Time of Flight. I have seen this in professional journals and find it astounding! Essentially they are reconciling distance measurement down to 1 meter or so by clocking waves travelling at the speed of light. Detecting crossing of a plane is actually a bit easier than that. If the model is transmitting and there are 2 receivers equidistant from the Base (along the flight path), anywhere on the plane, the RF path lengths are equal, thus the detection of the Base crossing. Hey, we all have telemetry transmitters anyway, right ?

Curious if either of these approaches are what Mr. Tengg has in mind.


Steve Manganelli
May 08, 2017, 01:26 AM
Registered User
Thread OP
If you check the link provided further technical details are presented!
May 08, 2017, 04:13 AM
Registered User
Update 08.05.2017:

Guntmar Rüb EUR 50,-
Carlos Andres Cordova Bernhard USD 50,- (=EUR 47,-)

Bank account transfer:
Christian Ulbrich EUR 100,-
Dr. Martin Hoff EUR 100,-

Thank you for your Support.

Total supported value on bank account: EUR 1.647,-

lg, Gernot Tengg
May 09, 2017, 12:16 AM
Registered User
Originally Posted by JAyThaRevo
If you check the link provided further technical details are presented!
What Link? I found several having to do with funding and one about the Institution, but nothing specific to this project

Steve M.
May 09, 2017, 12:52 AM
Registered User
Thread OP
I am talking about the link.
There you should find a english section with more info.
May 09, 2017, 03:51 AM
Grow old disgracefully!
dickw's Avatar
I think that is the wrong link Julian.
Try this one
There is a video (in english) covering some basic principles and an english section further down the page with again some very basic information.

It would be nice to have more information, but I guess it is too early for that .

May 09, 2017, 05:32 AM
Registered User
Thread OP
Thanks dick.
That is what I actually meant^^
May 10, 2017, 11:33 AM
Registered User


Update 10.5.2017:

Thanks to:
Team F3F Swiss Pilots für EUR 250,-
Robert Lazinka für EUR 25,-
Ralf Averwerser EUR 10,-
Jeroen Smits EUR 25,-
Norbert Hübner EUR 115,-

Bank account value: EUR 2.072,-


As you can see, we are happy to receive small amounts too. Maybe there are some 10,- or 20,- spare bucks in your wallet you can donate?

STEP 1 (1 Monopulse-Antenna with receiver, 1-2 transmitter) will be an amount of about EUR 3.000,- for prototyping. The further EUR 2.000,- up to the total sum of the needed EUR 5.000,- are thought as a reserve (if something goes wrong with the prototypes) or for the 2nd Monopulse-Antenna for Base A.

I bought a UFP-Set from JUBU (with my own money, not from the collected money for the project) to get a signal from Base B to Base A when we start testing.

Below you can find all versions how to tranfer money into the project:
Bank transfer:
Gernot Tengg, Sackgasse 1, 8077 Thondorf
Iban: AT513822300000193672
Bic: RZSTAT2G223
USAGE: Projekt TU-Graz


By Credit-Card:

Thank you all and best regards, Gernot
May 10, 2017, 12:33 PM
Registered User
Thank you Steve Neu - NeuMotors for supporting us with USD 200,- on our project-platform-website.
Money on the project platform will only be transfered when money on bank account needs to be raised up, because of the transfer values of USD 25,- for each transfer, not depending on the height of transfer.
So our bank account value is still EUR 2.072,-
Project-website value is USD 200,-
Total value is about EUR 2.250,-

May 11, 2017, 04:24 AM
Registered User
Update today, 11. Mai. 2017:
Thank you to:

Patrick Mack for EUR 50,- and Christian Nussler for EUR 132,31

You are great and I hope a lot of pilots will follow your opinion to support us.

Best regards, Gernot
May 11, 2017, 02:00 PM
Registered User

Whitehead Richard John € 100,00
George Shering € 100,00
Werner Gölz € 50,00
Guntmar Rüb € 50,00
Carlos Andres/Cordova Bernhard USD 50,- (=EUR 47,-) € 47,00
Christian Ulbrich € 100,00
Dr. Martin Hoff € 100,00
Team F3F Swiss Pilots € 250,00
Robert Lazinka € 25,00
Ralf Averwerser € 10,00
Jeroen Smits € 25,00
Norbert Hübner € 115,00
Steve Neu $200,00
Patrick Mack € 50,00
Christian Nussler € 132,31
Gernot Tengg € 500,00
Julian Schild € 100,00
Heiko Greiner € 100,00
Wolfgang Schloer € 50,00
Maximilian Steidle € 250,00
DI Karl Waser € 100,00
Frits Donker Duyvis € 50,00
Sascha Lotz € 150,00

Quick Reply

Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Discussion EUROCONTEST Graz, Austria, June 3-4 surfgeorge Hand Launch 0 May 02, 2017 04:09 AM
Gallery View towards the Graz Basin, Austria - Update July 2009 EyP3 Aerial Photography 34 Nov 16, 2009 06:41 AM
Discussion Flying in Graz Austria spinandfly Thermal 1 Jun 07, 2009 02:45 AM
Gallery Thal near Graz, Austria EyP3 Aerial Photography 9 Apr 01, 2009 03:17 PM
Rave AP neighbourhood sortie (Graz, Austria) Erich Preitler Aerial Photography 13 Aug 19, 2005 09:17 AM