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Jun 25, 2019, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by attwooddrow
Chris, there's some nice older kits that come up on here for sale. They will be under gas jets or electric jets classifieds. We also have a FB group named Composite Remote Control Aircraft Builders. Check it out.


YES!

And if you do NOT get approved, send an admin a message explaining who you are.

I made the group and kept it private bc i didnt want any random tom, dick and Hujari john showing up and spamming the group with a bunch of random Not topic specific stuff.

So if we dont see something Rc related on your profile, we typically dont approve people... sometimes thats good and bad?
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Jun 27, 2019, 08:50 PM
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Dirty Dee's Avatar
Thanks invertmast. You approved me pretty quick.
Jun 27, 2019, 09:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty Dee
Thanks invertmast. You approved me pretty quick.
I have alot of free time at work since i’m “on call” 18 days a month and mostly sitting in my apartment, unfortunately, that is 400 miles away from my house and shop.
Jun 28, 2019, 06:01 AM
dare to be dull
bigjohn's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by invertmast
If you guys need a T38 nozzle that is pretty nice and scale, i can upload mine from my 1/4.5 T38 project.

Thomas
Nice ejector nozzle!. This has been my next step to draw up a pair of nozzles and a bulkhead that fits the back end of the miller T-38. The stock nozzles look like a couple styro coffee cups.

I would love to use your nozzle on mine...
Jun 28, 2019, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjohn
Nice ejector nozzle!. This has been my next step to draw up a pair of nozzles and a bulkhead that fits the back end of the miller T-38. The stock nozzles look like a couple styro coffee cups.

I would love to use your nozzle on mine...
I’ll post it up when i get back home in a few days. Its primarily a C model nozzle since that is the version i am doing.
Jun 28, 2019, 03:38 PM
Will build for food!!!
attwooddrow's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by invertmast
I’ll post it up when i get back home in a few days. Its primarily a C model nozzle since that is the version i am doing.
I've been following your work on the FB group. Great work so far. Are you going to be making kits for sale once your molds are done?
Jun 28, 2019, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by attwooddrow
I've been following your work on the FB group. Great work so far. Are you going to be making kits for sale once your molds are done?
If people are willing to pay the asking price and be willing to wait, possibly. Lol
Jun 29, 2019, 10:36 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by invertmast
If people are willing to pay the asking price and be willing to wait, possibly. Lol
The second question is what level of prefabrication do people want and are they willing to pay for it. Back in the Glow DF days there were many options to meet various price points. One could buy a Parkinson kit at the low end of the scale, or go with a prefabricated kit from BVM. Of course there was a large price variance between these two extremes.

If we drill down further and talk about the options BVM offered for the jets they offered in 1998. The 63" WS F-86F was offered as a kit for $850, or with prefabricated wings, stab and fin for $1250. The kit with the prefab components still required a significant amount of time to build and finish . If one factors in inflation from 1998 to 2019, add 57% to these costs. So, $1335 and $1965 respectively for each of these kits if available today. BVM only offers the 63" WS F-86 as an ARF at a base price of $2695.

Since you, Air Sally, or any one else who is willing to manufacture kits isn't supporting a manufacturing facility, with all the associated costs, a semi kit could be sold for quite a bit less, but how much lower? My wild a$$'d guess would be around $500 for a basic kit consisting of a fiberglass fuselage, precut foam cores for the flying surfaces, and laser cut formers.

There was a company still selling kits at this price point in 2016, Jet Hanger Hobbies. How many here at RCG are still buying from JHH today? Probably not too many.

Richard
Last edited by RGBvr; Jun 29, 2019 at 10:41 AM.
Jun 29, 2019, 11:48 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by RGBvr
The second question is what level of prefabrication do people want and are they willing to pay for it. Back in the Glow DF days there were many options to meet various price points. One could buy a Parkinson kit at the low end of the scale, or go with a prefabricated kit from BVM. Of course there was a large price variance between these two extremes.

If we drill down further and talk about the options BVM offered for the jets they offered in 1998. The 63" WS F-86F was offered as a kit for $850, or with prefabricated wings, stab and fin for $1250. The kit with the prefab components still required a significant amount of time to build and finish . If one factors in inflation from 1998 to 2019, add 57% to these costs. So, $1335 and $1965 respectively for each of these kits if available today. BVM only offers the 63" WS F-86 as an ARF at a base price of $2695.

Since you, Air Sally, or any one else who is willing to manufacture kits isn't supporting a manufacturing facility, with all the associated costs, a semi kit could be sold for quite a bit less, but how much lower? My wild a$$'d guess would be around $500 for a basic kit consisting of a fiberglass fuselage, precut foam cores for the flying surfaces, and laser cut formers.

There was a company still selling kits at this price point in 2016, Jet Hanger Hobbies. How many here at RCG are still buying from JHH today? Probably not too many.

Richard
Honestly,
$500 for a short kit of this wouldnt even get a response from me to a potential customer. That is extremely unrealistic and would barely cover material expenses,, but i do realize its because Alot of people dont realize how much time goes into making the plugs, molds and then the actual parts. That $500 is around the price that a JHH short kit sells at for an airplane 1/4 to 1/3 the size.

The people in this hobby have really been the biggest shot to their own feet. Everyone is quick to say “take my money” or “when can i get one” but when it comes time to actually pay, for every 20 people that said they wanted one, you MIGHT get 1 actual purchase. This is why you dont see alot of business’ getting into short kits and the such anymore. The time invested into getting to the point of being able to sell the product is ridiculous, then given the “instant gratification” of alot people, it makes even less sense.
Profit is in offering a Quality product that can be at the RTF state fairly quickly. The builders group is getting pretty small.

For me, i previously priced my kits based on recovering my tooling expenses within 5 kit sales, this price doesnt pay me for my time to actually do the tooling or the kits, it was strictly to come out even, i get paid for my time with all kit sales over 5.. which most of the time, i rarely even sell 5. My HO229, i sold 1 kit. My TA-52, i sold 3. The F14, i will only sell 1 and that is to a friend.

Most of the guys who are buying large jets have the $$$ but are limited in the time or just dont want to spend weeks/months building. So based in that, the prefab of my T38 will be pretty extensive (and it was designed to be that way) to where it could be flying in only a week or two of work.

With my free time more limited than before all future kits will be priced at what i feel is market consistent to the level of prefab.


That is why i say “if they are willing to pay the price and wait”. This isnt my full time job and i’ll only sell one airframe at a time., which will take me however long it takes to make. This stuff isnt hard, but its time consuming and you csn get burnt out really quickly, which is one of the reasons ive taken almost a 3yr long break.
Jun 29, 2019, 01:47 PM
Need 4 Speed!
pdawg's Avatar
Most people have no idea how much effort goes into producing a high quality molded kit. Explains why there are few US kit makers these days. That T-38 by Invertmast is going to be a several thousand dollar kit if he even decides to sell a couple.
Latest blog entry: original Y/A F-18 Kit
Jun 30, 2019, 10:25 AM
dare to be dull
bigjohn's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdawg
Most people have no idea how much effort goes into producing a high quality molded kit. Explains why there are few US kit makers these days. That T-38 by Invertmast is going to be a several thousand dollar kit if he even decides to sell a couple.
This is why the story of the Byron molds - apparently lost forever - is so unfortunate. Hopefully tho, that clears the decks for the other folks that want to reproduce some version of those kits...
Jun 30, 2019, 11:40 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjohn
This is why the story of the Byron molds - apparently lost forever - is so unfortunate. Hopefully tho, that clears the decks for the other folks that want to reproduce some version of those kits...
Not lost forever... they are still around. The company who has them just doesnt use them because there is no money to be made (in terms of time investment) compared to the commercial UAV services they offer.
Jul 03, 2019, 06:38 PM
Classic jets rule
AIR SALLY's Avatar
Amen to what you have said . I had @27 guys on a list and prouced 17 short kits of a 80mm FJ-1 Fury. I charged what i thought was a competitive price.....but i awould be embarrassed to post what i thought i made per hour
Aug 08, 2019, 10:51 PM
Registered User
Angel RC Design's Avatar
My t38 came out to be 15 and 1/2 lb with a hurricane fan
Aug 09, 2019, 11:31 AM
Will build for food!!!
attwooddrow's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angel RC Design
My t38 came out to be 15 and 1/2 lb with a hurricane fan
NICE!!! That should be a great flier at that weight. I'm hoping for about the same or maybe a pound more. We will see. I've been working on my Byron F-18 right now and the 38 has been benched for awhile.


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