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Mar 05, 2017, 09:41 PM
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Question

Variable speed Winch


So far I've only hi-started my gliders but I'm hoping to start winch launching soon.

Is it possible to install an ESC into the winch so I can have variable speed?

I'm pretty sure my moldie gliders will be fine with full power launches but I'd like to be able to lower the speed for my Ka-8. The 8 goes up well on a hi-start but I'm worried that a full power winch will be too much for it...


Tony
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Mar 05, 2017, 09:49 PM
Sagitta Fanboy
Current winches use very high draw brushed motors, so you'll have a difficult time finding a 600A+ brushed ESC to control it.

People have experimented with using modern large-scale brushless power setups as alternative winches, but the idea hasn't taken off largely due to the fact that current winch designs are to some extent baked into the F3B rules ( and into the TD rules, which assume that everyone has access to the same type of winch)

The trick is learning to tap.
Mar 05, 2017, 09:56 PM
BMFA 190658
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Yes, I've been told tap dancing is the way to do it!!!
Mar 05, 2017, 10:25 PM
May the Wind Always be Good
Yes Tapping is your speed control it has worked for many years ..
Mar 06, 2017, 11:35 AM
Registered User
One possibility for proportional control of a winch motor at 12Vdc is the Alltrax AXE2444 speed controller. The AXE2444 can supply 400A for 2 minutes or 200A for 1 hour. It can be controlled by a 5K ohm potentiometer.
http://www.alltraxinc.com/Products_AXE.html

I read somewhere on the web of an idea to allow the speed control to handle more current The idea was to separate the wires in the motor for the field coils and the armature. You would then connect the field coils directly to the 12 Vdc battery. But you would connect the armature to the ESC. So the ESC would only have to control half of the current used by the motor.

It no longer seems to be available, but a few years ago the OSMC based MC1-HV speed controller was sold fully assembled by www.robot-solutions.com
The MC1-HV had extra thick PCB copper traces to handle the high currents. The MC1-HV was controlled by a regular PWM input just like that used for RC servos. The original description specified that the MC1-HV could supply 400 amp continuous (700 amp surge) at 4 to 42 volts DC. The OSMC (Open Source Motor Controller) discussion group can be found at the following URL. There are still OSMC speed controllers available but with less current capability than the MC1-HV model.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/osmc/

There may be some winches available in Europe that already incorporate an electronic speed control. For example see the winches sold by Frits van Breemen of Holland (but unfortunately the link for his website has stopped working).
Mar 06, 2017, 02:32 PM
BMFA 190658
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Thanks!

I followed the link to find out more about the AXE2444. The lack of a price looks worrying...
If you have to ask then you usually can't afford it
Mar 06, 2017, 03:40 PM
Registered User
You will find multiple dealers by doing a google search for AXE2444.
Below is a vendor who sells the AXE2444 for $407 (US Dollars).

http://www.evdrives.com/product_p/con-axe2444.htm
Mar 06, 2017, 04:06 PM
Mark LSF # 3792

Educated Foot


Quote:
Originally Posted by toothCarrot
You will find multiple dealers by doing a google search for AXE2444.
Below is a vendor who sells the AXE2444 for $407 (US Dollars).

http://www.evdrives.com/product_p/con-axe2444.htm
Quickly scanning the page you linked to one would probably want to use the AX4865 when using a typical US TD winch set up. They say the price is $658 (US Dollars) and In Stock.

http://www.evdrives.com/product_p/con-axe4865.htm

I think an educated foot may be a valid alternative...the TD winch I just bought ready to go cost me less than that.
Mar 06, 2017, 05:18 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soarmark
Quickly scanning the page you linked to one would probably want to use the AXE4865 when using a typical US TD winch set up. They say the price is $658 (US Dollars) and In Stock.

http://www.evdrives.com/product_p/con-axe4865.htm

I think an educated foot may be a valid alternative...the TD winch I just bought ready to go cost me less than that.
According to the description the AXE4865 requires an input voltage of 24 to 48 VDC. So it might not work on a single 12 volt car battery.

I agree that an educated foot would be more economical. Unfortunately my feet are partially paralyzed due to a spinal cord injury so I have problems tapping.
Last edited by toothCarrot; Mar 06, 2017 at 05:26 PM.
Mar 06, 2017, 05:43 PM
Registered User
Note that most winches in the USA use Ford starter motor winches with a power spec of 2.4 to 4.8 HP. Most F3B legal winches in Europe and elsewhere use a Bosch starter motor with a power spec of 1.1 Kw (about 1.5 HP). The FAI rules for F3B in Europe say that you cannot use a motor greater than 1.1 Kw for competition.

I believe the 600 amp current draw mentioned above was for the Ford starter motor. So a Bosch motor would probably have much less than 600 amp maximum current draw.
Last edited by toothCarrot; Mar 06, 2017 at 06:39 PM.
Mar 06, 2017, 11:11 PM
Registered User
Actually what you could do is add a large resistor into the system to adjust the power. F3B winches use them but you could use a bigger one to make your TD winch woody friendly. Not hard to do.
Mar 06, 2017, 11:11 PM
Registered User
But you still have to tap
Mar 07, 2017, 02:47 AM
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A resistor was my first thought too.

Tapping seems a lot cheaper though, and money talks!!!
Mar 07, 2017, 06:52 AM
Registered User
Resistors are cheap. You could even make one out of some stainless or similar semi-conductive material.
Mar 07, 2017, 07:58 AM
Kurt Zimmerman ≡LSF 4461≡
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A long time ago I saw a modified foot pedal that had 2 switches in it. The first one had a load resister wired in series and the second switch had no
Load resister. The idea was to step on the foot pedal slightly to trigger the first switch with the load. This started the winch is an slower mode. If you stepped all the way down this triggered the second switch with no load and the winch spun at full speed.

This was great in concept but a pain in practice. Honestly it is easier to tap tap the foot pedal.

Kurt


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