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Mar 08, 2017, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miami Mike
That's funny because my setup currently has 5 GVARS that are unused and open. I only use them for values that need to be changed in flight or adjusted at the field, and only then if I can't used trims instead because they're otherwise occupied. Anything that can be adjusted at home during setup and calibration doesn't need a global variable.

I use two of them to adjust aileron differential because for diff a global variable is the only alternative to a fixed value. One (GV9) is called "ADfIn" and the other (GV8) is "ADfOut."

ADfIn is adjusted by a Special Function to values in a range of -125% to +125% using the rudder trim while a switch is in a certain position:

Code:
SF19 L12 - Adjust GV9(TrmR)
That value is translated to the range of 0 to +100% with a single mix line:

Code:
CH26 (GV9) MAX Weight(GV9) Offset(50%) Curve(17) [Set GV8]
(See the note below.)

Channel 26 is read into GV8 with this Special Function:

Code:
SF18 ON - Adjust GV8(CH26)
and GV8 controls aileron differential with lines like these:

Code:
CH01 (RtAil) [I1]Aile Weight(+100%) Diff(GV8)

CH02 (LtAil) [I1]Aile Weight(-100%) Diff(GV8)
I use another GVAR for in-flight adjustment of aileron-to-rudder mixing and one for the amount of down-elevator for Kapow, and that's it!

Note:

Curve 17 is a trick that Mike Shellim and I came up with together. It's a straight horizontal line at +40% that multiplies MAX by that value without using an additional mix line. Multiplying MAX by +40% produces a range of -50% to +50%, and an offset of 50% translates that into a range of 0% to +100%.

It's an alternate way of doing something like this:

Code:
CH26 (GV9) MAX Weight(GV9) Offset(125%) [Set GV8]
        *= MAX Weight(40%)
The offset value is different here because the order of multiplication and addition operations is different. Here, offsetting MAX by +125% produces a range of 0% to +250%, and multiplying that by +40% translates it into a range of 0% to +100%.
I don't need to but off the top of my head I use GVAR for

1 ail to rudder mix
2,3,4 ail differential
5 flap differential
6 camber to elevator compensation
7 elevator rates
8 aileron rates
9 camber/reflex "value" (there are lines that create the offset across the span)

Only 1, 2, 3, 4, 6 are in flight adjustments

The rest I like GVAR because the are just flight mode dependent values and it cleans up the mixer significantly

My aileron differential mix is sort of weird. It changes with flap position ie. there is less differential as the flaps are deployed

Also I don't use a landing mode. My landing "modes" are a hybrid of either thermal, normal, or reflex flight modes. I can land in thermal mode and the model is more buoyant and slow or reflex the model is significantly faster.

I use a slider to add camber but also compensate the elevator so I can tune the flight speed. That I adjust constantly.

Most of my programing is all thermal driven. Most of my influences on my program are from SD10 and Jeti.

I want more GVAR for a couple things.

Ail to flap mix
Flap to elevator compensation

Not the end of the world to change values in the mixer. It's just I change these all the time at the field.
Last edited by Bmwjoon; Mar 08, 2017 at 03:18 PM.
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Mar 08, 2017, 03:42 PM
This will not end well.
Miami Mike's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bmwjoon
The rest I like GVAR because the are just flight mode dependent values and it cleans up the mixer significantly
Another way to clean out space on the Mixes page is to use Input lines instead. See Mixes are for mixing, inputs are for selecting on my blog. In short, any set of lines that doesn't include actual mixes doesn't need to be on the Mixes page.
Latest blog entry: List of Threads About HR 302
Mar 08, 2017, 04:23 PM
F3B
satinet's Avatar
BMWjoon - The reason you are using gvars is because you are used to being able to adjust all the normal settings as much as you want. There's hope for you yet. Take the red pill........

What happens is you run out of gvars for normal settings then you have to go in to mixers, which are often high mixers due to the awesome, infallible logic of opentx. So you can have to scroll down to line 30 to find what you are looking for (during the working time of your slot maybe).

You can indeed use the inputs menu for stuff. The problem with that is that you end up with a lot of lines in there. E,g 5 flight modes you could end up with a line just for each elevator setting (i don't use any dual or triple rates, as they are not very useful in thermal flying imho). I just want to set the elevator travel in each flight mode.

Not only that you kind of have to use separate inputs specially for stuff like the a2flp mix. Because if you use a rate lines on the aileron input it will also effect all the outputs that have that as an input (i.e a2flp). So you will need more lines yet. Obviously you run in to that problem with snap flap where elevator rates can effect the snap flap output, IF you don't do your setup properly.

In reality multiple mixer or input lines for the same thing - with 6 character names - are not very nice to work with, which is why you are trying to use GVARs for everything. Especially when you are used to being able to flip your flight mode switches and just put a new value in for the active flight mode. GVAR does find a way round it to some degree, but you always tend to run out. There isn't really a practical solution in opentx, because if you were able to put in different settings for each flight mode for each mixer, it would become even more unmanageable, because you have copies of the same mixer in several channels and you would have to alter them all.

The mixer menu could be cleaned up massively if the camber function were taken to a separate menu (equivalent to jeti style flight mode trim). I know that was put forward to the devs by someone else at some point, but it didn't go anywhere (opentx being perfection already). I don't see why gliders can't have their own special screen - heliflopters have got one. You could unselect it like you can the heli menu when you upload new firmware.

At the end of the day you have a choice of the opentx way of doing it or the other way. There are obviously pros and cons to both approaches.
Mar 08, 2017, 04:33 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miami Mike
Another way to clean out space on the Mixes page is to use Input lines instead. See Mixes are for mixing, inputs are for selecting on my blog. In short, any set of lines that doesn't include actual mixes doesn't need to be on the Mixes page.
I know
Mar 08, 2017, 04:55 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by satinet
BMWjoon - The reason you are using gvars is because you are used to being able to adjust all the normal settings as much as you want. There's hope for you yet. Take the red pill........

What happens is you run out of gvars for normal settings then you have to go in to mixers, which are often high mixers due to the awesome, infallible logic of opentx. So you can have to scroll down to line 30 to find what you are looking for (during the working time of your slot maybe).

You can indeed use the inputs menu for stuff. The problem with that is that you end up with a lot of lines in there. E,g 5 flight modes you could end up with a line just for each elevator setting (i don't use any dual or triple rates, as they are not very useful in thermal flying imho). I just want to set the elevator travel in each flight mode.

Not only that you kind of have to use separate inputs specially for stuff like the a2flp mix. Because if you use a rate lines on the aileron input it will also effect all the outputs that have that as an input (i.e a2flp). So you will need more lines yet. Obviously you run in to that problem with snap flap where elevator rates can effect the snap flap output, IF you don't do your setup properly.

In reality multiple mixer or input lines for the same thing - with 6 character names - are not very nice to work with, which is why you are trying to use GVARs for everything. Especially when you are used to being able to flip your flight mode switches and just put a new value in for the active flight mode. GVAR does find a way round it to some degree, but you always tend to run out. There isn't really a practical solution in opentx, because if you were able to put in different settings for each flight mode for each mixer, it would become even more unmanageable, because you have copies of the same mixer in several channels and you would have to alter them all.

The mixer menu could be cleaned up massively if the camber function were taken to a separate menu (equivalent to jeti style flight mode trim). I know that was put forward to the devs by someone else at some point, but it didn't go anywhere (opentx being perfection already). I don't see why gliders can't have their own special screen - heliflopters have got one. You could unselect it like you can the heli menu when you upload new firmware.

At the end of the day you have a choice of the opentx way of doing it or the other way. There are obviously pros and cons to both approaches.
We've all used computer radios for years now so prior to opentx we got used to being able to do certain things, basic things like tapping at basic screens to change basic settings. I won't argue with you there. Some pilots don't tweak stuff after every flight, some guys do. I DO a lot ! So I like stuff where I can find it. A lot of the difficulties people have directly have to do with the style you setup your models. Like Mike said if you use certain areas to put things like I put weight dependent stuff in inputs and put mixes only in the mixer and inflights in GVAR, etc. it makes it easier to rattle through the menus and change things.

But if you didn't write the program for that model and downloaded form the internet a totally different story so although I'm an Opentx druggy, I am actually agreeing with you.

I still use Airtronics and Jeti. I like them. Nothing wrong with them. But my models with my Taranis are actually setup better and fly better. Although maybe a little worse in ease of programming.
Mar 15, 2017, 07:14 AM
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mikeshellim's Avatar

Diff without GVARs


Following on from the discussion about the scarcity of gvars, I've written up a mixer snippet which implements diff using mixers only.

The method provides live adjustment of aileron and flap diff using the rudder trim. It also provides aileron diff suppression, and reverse differential.

GVARs are used in the supporting code for Reverse Diff and Aileron2Flap adjustments, as a convenience.

Blog post

Can we keep any discussion on topic please, and not turn this into another my-radio-is-better/easier/more flexible than yours debate. Thanks.

Mike
Last edited by mikeshellim; Mar 15, 2017 at 07:20 AM.
Mar 15, 2017, 08:20 AM
Registered User
Mike is your diff variable here? The reason I use 3 for aileron diff is I use the flap position to change the differential value. Then it has a weight you set to set the end point. I suppose I could use a curve to make it stop and set that up but like I said before, I like using GVAR as a front end for my tuning. I do a lot of LZ tuning, well because I suck at landing, haha.
Mar 15, 2017, 11:26 AM
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mikeshellim's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bmwjoon
Mike is your diff variable here? The reason I use 3 for aileron diff is I use the flap position to change the differential value. Then it has a weight you set to set the end point. I suppose I could use a curve to make it stop and set that up but like I said before, I like using GVAR as a front end for my tuning. I do a lot of LZ tuning, well because I suck at landing, haha.
Yep, CH13 is the diff channel. The source is TrmR in the example, but it could be a flap lever. The output from CH13 should always be positive (between 0 and 100), you'd have to set the curve accordingly. Obviously it would be necessary to know in advance the diff settings to use. You could also add a global diff adjuster, by way of a MULT line in CH13.

If reverse diff is not needed, then you can substitute GV6 with zero.

The code as shown is specific to my setups, but hopefully the ideas can be re-applied to your own. My basic method is to isolate little bits of stuff (e.g. spoiler value) into high channels so they can be re-used in other mixes without having to recalculate stuff or re-apply curves.

Mike
Last edited by mikeshellim; Mar 15, 2017 at 11:46 AM.
Apr 09, 2017, 05:09 AM
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mikeshellim's Avatar

Support page for RC-Soar templates


A bit of background on this...

One of my users reported an issue when calibrating the left flap servo - turns out it was a bug in OTX 2.2 N366 (RC14). There's a wider issue here, with two branches of OpenTx (one of which is in beta), an increasing range of transmitters (Horus, X9D, X9DP, X9E, Q X7), and a bunch of complex templates, and you have the potential for compatibility issues...

I've tried to put a little order into this by expanding my support page to include recommendations and issue reports.

http://rc-soar.com/opentx/support.htm

I hope this helps anyone using the templates, meantime any feedback on the OTX 2.2 beta builds would be gratefully received.
May 30, 2018, 03:07 PM
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GliderJim's Avatar
...
May 30, 2018, 03:22 PM
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GliderJim's Avatar
I'm resurrecting this thread because I got a Taranis X9D a few weeks ago and figured out how to do something and I needed a place to share it. I installed Mike's F3J/TD template and set up my first couple of sailplanes. One of the things I wanted was to have the LS control adjust trailing edge camber in Cruise mode as well as Thermal. I find it more convenient to dial in trailing edge camber this way instead of flipping a switch back and forth to go in and out of thermal mode. This is how I did it...

Channel 10 Mixer I added the following below the 2nd line (CmAjT1)
Code:
+= 
Mix name: CmAjCr
Source: LS
Weight: CmA
Offset: -CmA
Modes: 0
Channel 11 Mixer I added the following below the 2nd line (CmAjT1)
Code:
+= 
Mix name: CmAjCr
Source: LS
Weight: CmF
Offset: -CmF
Modes: 0
GVARS - FM0 (Cruise Mode)
Code:
CmA: 13  (This was the value I needed to achieve 6 degrees of down aileron when LS is all the way down - adjust to your needs)
CmF: 9  (This was the value I needed to achieve 6 degrees of down flap when LS is all the way down - adjust to your needs )
With LS all the way up I have my normal Cruise Mode trailing edge setting, and I can get up to 6 degrees down by moving LS. I was pretty excited to be able to do this and figured it might be useful to someone who's just starting out with the Taranis like I am. If anyone sees any obvious flaws with this please chime in, but it seems to do what I want with no negative side effects.

Jim
Last edited by GliderJim; May 30, 2018 at 07:08 PM. Reason: Typo
May 31, 2018, 03:21 AM
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mikeshellim's Avatar
Jim, technically this should work fine. However, with a potentially large camber variation in a single flight mode, you may find you need a camber to elevator compensation mix. Ideally this would be adjustable in flight. This of course adds complexity.

With the dedicated thermal mode approach, the camber range is restricted to +/-50% of the nominal value, so no real need for compensation.

Mike
Last edited by mikeshellim; May 31, 2018 at 03:29 AM.
May 31, 2018, 07:08 AM
Registered User
GliderJim's Avatar
Thanks for the input. On my old 9303 I had programmed the elevator compensation exactly as you mention, but then realized I didn't really need it when thermalling, since you're usually pulling a little up elevator in a thermal turn anyway. I'll have to see how it goes. It's possible I could go back to using the switch since it's in a better location than it was on the 9303.
May 31, 2018, 09:30 AM
This will not end well.
Miami Mike's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by GliderJim
but then realized I didn't really need (elevator compensation) when thermalling, since you're usually pulling a little up elevator in a thermal turn anyway.
That seems like an odd way to look at it. It's like saying you don't need elevator compensation when you lower your flaps for landing because you're usually adding down elevator when you lower your flaps anyway.

The point is, you add compensation so that you don't have to do that!
Latest blog entry: List of Threads About HR 302
May 31, 2018, 10:28 AM
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GliderJim's Avatar
When I lower the flaps for landing, the plane pitches up. I don't want that to happen, so I add elevator compensation.

When doing a thermal turn the nose tends to drop, so I have to manually add up elevator to compensate.

If adding a little bit of camber achieves the same thing...then I don't need elevator compensation. It makes sense to me.


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