Thread Tools
Mar 01, 2017, 12:13 PM
Thomas Armstrong
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Gibson View Post
Can somebody point me in the direction of the RG65 ICA website where I or any owner can get involved with class matters. Can someone point me to the webpage that shows all national CAs and contacts, rules discussions, updated calendars of racing and reports?
RG65 ICA has a website (see below). Yes, it appears to have minimum activity, but that does not mean it does not exist ant that it does not work. Yes, the RG65 ICA is not as formal as many other organizations, and it it not known in many parts of the world. But it exists, and is strong enough that all NCAs contact them periodically for many reasons. I've been personally involved in several official activities, like for example 2010 rule changes, 2014 rule changes, south-american championships communications for 2013, 2015 & 2017, etc.

If you are not involved, but want to be involved, contact them:
Regards,
Thomas Armstrong
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Mar 01, 2017, 12:23 PM
Registered User
And I might add that attempts by those of us with experience in managing the class to engage with IRSA were met with an attitude of condescending dismissal. The class is healthy in the US and elsewhere. As US class secretary I report to a membership of over 500 individuals, many of whom own more than one boat, and membership has grown every year. Just because the existing ICA does not operate with the pomp and circumstance of IRSA doesn't mean we're neither serious nor competent.

Cheers,

Earl
Mar 01, 2017, 12:54 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Gibson View Post
.....?

Bio, quite a thick brush to paint he GBR IOM skippers as a whole for all things you perceive wrong with IOM. You I imagine put your hand up to be a part of IOMICA or sat on the sidelines? You think a strong international class with healthy events is not good?

.....
Brad

yes, yes I know ..... To my defense I have to say, that I don't paint the GBR IOM skippers with a thick brush, I have/had problems with the IOM class management and it happened while GBR sailors where in charge, but as i said my "issues" are with the class IOMICA managmet (as in decision making and class direction) as a whole, not with skippers from one country or another, and especially not with the IOMICA volunteers that help managing the class and do a daunting job and don't get the credid they deserve (for the most part) .... I was starting with the IOMs at that time, and felt "slightly" put of by the responses we where getting from the IOMCA .... Do I think that a strong international class with healthy events in not good? Absolutely no!, actually quite the opposite.
Mar 01, 2017, 02:06 PM
Registered User
I would have thought that it would be far more offensive if the governing body of radio sailing had decided that it should introduce a new "small class" and started from scratch - by choosing the RG65, IRSA are acknowledging that the core principles of the boat are good. The rest is about discussion and negotiation on the best route forward.

IRSA is bound by its rules and regulations to comply with the WS model, so its documents are always going to represent this and follow recognised practice.

Why not talk to IRSA, agree a timescale for discussion and get the ICA to vote on the rules-or is this just spoiling a good argument?
Mar 01, 2017, 02:15 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashbyroadeast View Post
I would have thought that it would be far more offensive if the governing body of radio sailing had decided that it should introduce a new "small class" and started from scratch - by choosing the RG65, IRSA are acknowledging that the core principles of the boat are good. The rest is about discussion and negotiation on the best route forward.

IRSA is bound by its rules and regulations to comply with the WS model, so its documents are always going to represent this and follow recognised practice.

Why not talk to IRSA, agree a timescale for discussion and get the ICA to vote on the rules-or is this just spoiling a good argument?
We are. You have no idea how difficult it has been. And the idea that IRSA chose the RG65, instead of the RG65 ICA choosing IRSA, says it all.

Cheers,

Earl
Mar 01, 2017, 02:22 PM
Registered User
The people who run IRSA are a known quality. They have been around a long time and how they run things is not a secret. When put in charge they take charge. They work hard, they assert their expertise, they work behind closed doors and they issue their rules and regulations with little regard for outside input. As long as no one is prepared to step up and regularly raise their voices or run for office or even vote, this situation will continue. Already IRSA effectively controls IOMICA thanks largely to apathy from the rank and file membership. If the RG65 class wants to be the master of its own destiny people need to step up as Brad Gibson suggests. If no one is willing to take responsibility, Misters Gilbert, Bantock, Grubisa etc. will happily take on the task of decision making and class administration. Basically, if you want something different you have to step up and work for it, otherwise, as the old saying goes, you can't blame a scorpion for its sting, it is its nature.
Mar 01, 2017, 02:30 PM
Registered User
Step up and do what? A drone strike? I volunteered for the technical committee, was nominated by the US and seconded by Canada, and the nomination was ignored. What other options do you suggest?

Cheers,

Earl
Mar 01, 2017, 02:52 PM
Registered User
Dick L.'s Avatar
Tom/Roy

FYI.....both Doug Lord (foiling workgroup) and I, (RG65) tried for nominations to IRSA to be part of the working committees but were rejected or not considered.

As noted by Earl, we can only ask for an open door for volunteers....someone on the inside has to reply, open the door and make it an organization one would want to participte in and/or support.

Just my opinion, I could be wrong..........
Mar 01, 2017, 04:52 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Corbett View Post
The people who run IRSA are a known quality. They have been around a long time and how they run things is not a secret. When put in charge they take charge. They work hard, they assert their expertise, they work behind closed doors and they issue their rules and regulations with little regard for outside input. As long as no one is prepared to step up and regularly raise their voices or run for office or even vote, this situation will continue. Already IRSA effectively controls IOMICA thanks largely to apathy from the rank and file membership. If the RG65 class wants to be the master of its own destiny people need to step up as Brad Gibson suggests. If no one is willing to take responsibility, Misters Gilbert, Bantock, Grubisa etc. will happily take on the task of decision making and class administration. Basically, if you want something different you have to step up and work for it, otherwise, as the old saying goes, you can't blame a scorpion for its sting, it is its nature.
Yes, they are known ..... but the problem still remains, who put the in charge or asked them to be in charge of the RG65 class?
There are people who stepped up and are already doing a pretty good job of managing the class, there is no need for IRSA to take over the class and start making behind close door decisions .... Earl and Roy have explained the situation/handling with IRSA very well, it's not a question of "not stepping up".
Last edited by gio06226; Mar 01, 2017 at 04:57 PM.
Mar 02, 2017, 07:13 AM
Registered User
https://www.radiosailing.org/…/152-r...class-r…
1) The International RG65 Class is a gift from Argentina to the whole World. There is no trademark.
2) Respect the legacy of Juan Gherzi (ARG-1) and others like my dear friend Teodoro Suligoj (ARG-2). Both RIP.
3) The world has voted for the refusal to join the IRSA.
4) The RG65 Class is not interested in the World Championship, in possession of the International Trophies, National, South American and European Championships and counting...
5) Defend the work of many anonymous people who helped create what the class is today. I do not agree to take what is everyone's.
6) The International Class RG65 amends its Regulations according to it´s own schedule. We do not need IRSA to do it for us.
7) As a helmsman of the International RG65 Class I feel indignant. Intimate IRSA remove RG65 Class from its website.

Germán Campos
ARG-83
International RG65 Class helmsman
Last edited by German.Campos; Mar 02, 2017 at 08:27 AM.
Mar 02, 2017, 07:53 AM
Registered User
Dick L.'s Avatar
Well said .... And thank you for posting what many of us are thinking.

Dick Lemke
USA # 005
Mar 02, 2017, 08:18 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Gibson View Post
Hi Marc and Tarmstro,
With that logic and the want for open design freedom, can I ask why I cannot build an A rig 50mm taller, an A rig with unlimited sail area or for that matter an unlimited number of rigs to use at events?

Would a quiver of fins encourage newcomers to a class that is fighting a size battle with newer plastic one designs it will never match on price point?

I am all for open design but the class may need to ask itself what it wants to be. Does it want to continue treading water with limited growth in most regions (discarding the spike from DF registrations now departed), where recent international races have struggled to get more than one fleet, or does it wish to grow and be a genuine attractive worldwide class? If the latter, and a few token restrictions are required to help make that happen, then should owners not look at them with an open mind?

Cheers
Brad
I'm all for a "super a rig" and I have multiple foils, but I find the deep one works best (370mm) and could I trim 10mm off and be fine. yes...

I agree at some point you have to have rules.. even on a developmental class...

and classes like the RG65 or IOM or any developmental class should not try to compete with inexpensive one design boats. We lost a great RG65 venue at White rock when they seem to have switched over to the DF fleet.. I've seen a club in williamsburg VA pop up over night with 20 DF's is it because the RG class is being mismanaged? no...people just don't have time/skill/inclination to build or spend $400+ on a boat, when they can spend $200 and be on the water in several hours and be one an even level (equipment wise) with the best skipper.

to be honest I don't the IRSA management of the RG65 is a huge selling point to grow a fleet... a 12+ page rule book is daunting to the a new sailor...couple that with the RRS that changes every 4 years. The attraction of a strict one design fleet is pretty obvious.

I'll never be a world renowned skipper or even a nationally renowned skipper... two reasons....time and money.... if IRSA ends up making their own rg65 fleet. I wont loose any sleep over. I don't think the US fleet will bow down to the IRSA and you'd end up with a fractured class, that will only end up confusing new builders, and probably end up with some legal battle over the RG65 logo and some folks with panties wadded up on both sides of the atlantic....
Mar 02, 2017, 08:52 AM
Registered User
This discussion only comes alive when IRSA does something so outrageous that it can't be ignored. To cause change you have to REGULARLY hold a light up to their activities. You have to call in your national authority when IRSA rejects your input and participation. You have to let the world know when they ignore you. You have to contact other national authorities and organize. You should take your own vote and reject IRSA. You should rewrite, codify and vote on your own rule set. You can also complain and take your case to World Sailing. Most importantly you can run against them and organize and vote them out of office. We did that in the IOM class, it can be done here.
Last edited by Tom Corbett; Mar 02, 2017 at 02:06 PM.
Mar 02, 2017, 09:08 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick L. View Post
Well said .... And thank you for posting what many of us are thinking.

Dick Lemke
USA # 005
Great to know I´m not alone on this contest.
Best!

Germán Campos
ARG-83
International RG65 Class Helmsman
Mar 02, 2017, 09:11 AM
Registered User

Building rg65


Quote:
Originally Posted by marcsmith View Post
I'm all for a "super a rig" and I have multiple foils, but I find the deep one works best (370mm) and could I trim 10mm off and be fine. yes...

I agree at some point you have to have rules.. even on a developmental class...

and classes like the RG65 or IOM or any developmental class should not try to compete with inexpensive one design boats. We lost a great RG65 venue at White rock when they seem to have switched over to the DF fleet.. I've seen a club in williamsburg VA pop up over night with 20 DF's is it because the RG class is being mismanaged? no...people just don't have time/skill/inclination to build or spend $400+ on a boat, when they can spend $200 and be on the water in several hours and be one an even level (equipment wise) with the best skipper.

to be honest I don't the IRSA management of the RG65 is a huge selling point to grow a fleet... a 12+ page rule book is daunting to the a new sailor...couple that with the RRS that changes every 4 years. The attraction of a strict one design fleet is pretty obvious.

I'll never be a world renowned skipper or even a nationally renowned skipper... two reasons....time and money.... if IRSA ends up making their own rg65 fleet. I wont loose any sleep over. I don't think the US fleet will bow down to the IRSA and you'd end up with a fractured class, that will only end up confusing new builders, and probably end up with some legal battle over the RG65 logo and some folks with panties wadded up on both sides of the atlantic....
The great thing about the RG65 class is they pretty inexpensive to build. Tons of free plans on the internet and designers willing to support the novice builder. Racing the df is what got me interesting in building. While I certainly do not think my efforts are on par with any of the great builder's out there, I can say there is nothing like the satisfaction of seeing a boat you built from scratch out on the water.

As far as your comment on expenses, I can get a new hull or on the water for around $100 bucks lol.. If you are not willing to do the work yourself, then yes, it's going to cost a bit more than $400 for a modern design to get it up and racing. The labor is still pennies on the dollar for the amount of work involved lol. I am sure that if you ask any of the top folks designing or building, they are not getting rich off of your dollar. It's more of a love for the sport.

Go ahead and add up the basic costs of your DF with (now) A+, A, B & C rigs and sails (which, you would have made a huge mistake not making and bringing to a ragatta if you travel) the costs are not to far off lol. I am happy you like your df as I love mine, just don't bag on the class that got it started.

Cheers


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Discussion RG65 Class: ZWERKZ RG65 3D Printed 20% Carbon hull zornzack Sailboats 19 Mar 23, 2017 10:00 PM
Discussion 65M Multihull Class - based on the RG65 size monohull Dick L. Sailboats 47 Aug 25, 2016 06:29 AM
Discussion sales promotion for 30 class,60 class and 90 class float ACCHOBBY Waterplanes 1 Apr 15, 2016 06:43 AM
Discussion RG65 class martin richards Sailboats 88 Nov 14, 2007 09:12 AM