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Feb 28, 2017, 09:26 AM
Thomas Armstrong
Discussion

RadioSailing and RG65 class


Hi:

What do you think of this? https://www.radiosailing.org/about/t...al-class-rules

"After reasonable development the Technical Committee has now published the Provisional Class Rules for the RG65 class. Time to add to the class under the classes menu. Question and Answers and Technical Documents are the starting points more will come"

I think that RadioSailing is not being reasonable at all. The provisional rules include many new restrictions to the boats, completely changing the development & innovation essence of the class by adding new and arbitrary limitations to:
  • Certification process - adds a cumbersome managed certification process, instead of the trust system we are all used to.
  • The shape of the hull - by forcing a measuring gauge with 30mm overhangs (now we cannot have deep bows, for example)
  • The shape of appendages - by adding arbitrary 360mm depth and width limitations that do not exist in current rules (I have much longer fins!).
  • The type of sails - by defining they must be soft sails (sailwings are prohibited now)
  • The quantity of sails - by adding explicit mention to using up to one mainsail and one headsail. (multiple masts and sails are prohibited now)
  • The shape of sails - by forcing specific sail area measurement geometry (now we cannot have crazy-shaped sails).
  • The bumper - now must be 6mm instead of 5mm.
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Feb 28, 2017, 09:28 AM
Thomas Armstrong
So, I feel it is fair that RadioSailing has interest in the RG65 class, but the rules administration should be left to the existing ICA. RadioSailing should just recognize the RG65 class and leave the existing ICA to manage the rules.

I know there are some nuances and formal requirements the rules must meet, but completely changing the essence of the class is something else...
Feb 28, 2017, 09:49 AM
Registered User
Dick L.'s Avatar
Another case where 40+ years of class rules and experience are tossed aside in favor of new ideas to "IMPROVE" a great class.

If the "new guys" want to do this for the Dragon Force design, have at it, and enjoy. In the meantime leave the RG65 class alone, until such time as the owners approve rule changes through the ICA

Thomas, where are these new (proposed) rules to be found?

ADDED........found it. Did I miss the CLASS OWNERS ASSOCIATION vote?
Feb 28, 2017, 10:10 AM
Registered User
DLord's Avatar

Rg 65


I agree with you Thomas-this is outrageous and a disgusting overreach by "Radio Sailing"!!

questions and answers from radio sailing: https://www.radiosailing.org/classes...stions-answers

provisional rules:
Last edited by DLord; Feb 28, 2017 at 10:16 AM.
Feb 28, 2017, 10:27 AM
Registered User
hiljoball's Avatar
This is an interesting statement on the linked web page. It is blatant blackmail.

Before the class can hold a world championship it is necessary that it achieves international designation and this, itself, is dependent on having class rules that meet the SCR standard.


However, there was a recent ruling that denies such power to the International authority. I think it was to do with World Sailing and kite sailing. So this blackmail may be a hollow threat.

JOhn
Feb 28, 2017, 10:42 AM
Thomas Armstrong
Crux seems to be that RadioSailing does not want to recognize existing ICA. Instead they want to manage the class directly and maybe "when any class committee becames self-sufficient, IRSA policy is that it should split off to become an independent ICA" (from Q&A)
Feb 28, 2017, 11:15 AM
Registered User
The appeal of the rg65 class is that a builder is free to dream up the next best thing ... The existing rules are fine the way they are, period. The above mentioned proposed changes to the rules are an over reach. Just my two cents,
Cheers
Feb 28, 2017, 11:48 AM
Registered User
Tarmstro

An important point is that the statements (3 and 4) on page 4 of these provisional rules are incorrect. IRSA could simply accept the RG65 class rules as they are.

World sailing regulations.

http://www.sailing.org/tools/documen...ulationsClean-[21948].pdf

Part 3 10.2.1 c
clearly states that class rules not in the "standard" format can be accepted if satisfactory and well established.
Feb 28, 2017, 12:05 PM
Registered User
So,

can WS just make their own RG65 class? no one says we have to follow. right? sounds like all of this is just WS testing the waters....

so the RG can't have a world championship. just call it the Internationals....

I thought this was funny..about the draft limit

The draught limit is to ensure all boats at an event can be guaranteed to be able to sail. From an IRSA point of view it is imperative that the race committee of an IRSA event does not find itself embarrassed because some competitors with class rule compliant boats cannot compete.

so, the IRSA committee would be embarrassed if I brought a boat to an event and it was not able to physically sail??? they've been sanding too much fiberglass without a dust mask...

also noticed it was for soft sails only... I guess I gotta work on my solid wing so I can get grandfathered?
Last edited by marcsmith; Feb 28, 2017 at 12:10 PM.
Feb 28, 2017, 01:06 PM
Registered User
Dick L.'s Avatar
How's that draft regulation (keel depth) working out in the Marblehead class?

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Feb 28, 2017, 01:34 PM
Registered User
When you follow the link in post #1, you see a page with links to the provisional rules.
Has everyone noted that there is another link that says " RG65 Provisional Class" ?
The links opens an insert with data and a profile drawing.

So now there is an IRSA RG65 Provisional Class??
Last edited by wim bakker; Feb 28, 2017 at 01:35 PM. Reason: Typo
Feb 28, 2017, 01:38 PM
Registered User
Dick
Some years ago the keel depth was set, so that essentially all boats complied with the new rule.
However, some Skalpel sailors were not very pleased.

Wim
Feb 28, 2017, 03:21 PM
Registered User
Dick L.'s Avatar
To my knowledge there is/was no depth restrictions on keel length (depth) for the RG65 class since all were pretty much self built with some exceptions. Don't think we need any now.

If memory still working, Europe had their own dimensions, US had theirs and a Detroit fleet has their own as a one design class.....all Marbleheads.
Feb 28, 2017, 04:35 PM
Registered User
The international M class has a depth limit as does the 10r class. The us M class does not. IMHO the rg65 does not need one. There is a point of diminishing returns and the boats are so small that depth is not pond limiting like the 10r or M.
Feb 28, 2017, 05:23 PM
Registered User
Yep, that's what happens when the brits and IOM people find a new toy ....


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