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Nov 02, 2019, 08:57 AM
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Ampbomber's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by crossup
So George, could you sum up your conclusions here?

I'm wondering if I'm leaving something on the table as I run a couple inches of rather small wire on both planes and when I fly with the 120 cells its two pieces of wires and of course the pico connector pair.

.

The 6A MX-3 was going into LVC ( shipped with LVC set at 3.1 V) because of the small gauge wire I was using between the Battery and the ESC. The wires were 2" long on the + and - side. I reconfigured the system so that the battery plugs into the ESC ( see the picture) without any wires.
This kept the voltaget o the MX above 3.1 V and that allowed the system to run 5 minutes vs 2 min.
Last edited by Ampbomber; Nov 02, 2019 at 09:02 AM. Reason: Tried to remove 1st picture can't???
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Nov 02, 2019, 09:51 AM
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crossup's Avatar
Thanks George, I've seen that setup several times including on Dave Lockharts Victory, in person.
Mine works fine with some really fine wires BUT your findings and the fact that other are going direct with heavy connections tells me I should see if I can determine how much I'm loosing. I have no issue with flight time but anything that keeps me away from an LVC event is to be considered. I' will have to check but pretty sure my LVC is 3.0.

BTW, this is from Alexy's thread- "16 propellers and system AL 11-12 min fly with 120 ma battery." I'm not getting this much time but it seems I'm getting a good deal more than you,
Last edited by crossup; Nov 02, 2019 at 10:04 AM.
Nov 03, 2019, 08:40 AM
Risto Hölttä - F3A/P Team FIN
Finnspeed's Avatar
Thread OP
The programming cable can be used while the ESC is mounted in the plane. You only need to add a small connector to the signal wire. Here are the steps for programming:
  • Separate the signal wire from the RX by disconnecting the connector
  • Connect the programming cable minus to the battery minus of the ESC
  • Connect the programming cable signal to the signal input of the ESC
  • Make sure the BLHeliSuite is running and is configured to talk to the correct serial port
  • Connect the battery
  • Now you should be able to connect to the ESC and read, change and write the settings
Nov 05, 2019, 08:00 AM
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Ampbomber's Avatar
OK. BTW, when will the voltage boosters be back in stock?

Thanks
Nov 06, 2019, 05:19 AM
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Ampbomber's Avatar
Finspeed,

Had a great time at our indoor session yesterday. 10 flights were made by several pilots. Big smiles on their faces since they fly only Clicks and this setup blows their minds. All flights were about 5 minutes 20 sec with batteries showing 9 to 15 % when placed on charge.

I won't be getting into programming the ESC LVC to 3.0 volts for now. i'm happy with the flight time for now.

Donatas had been watching the "short flight" saga and after watching the video suggested that I burn holes in the full drag brakes to reduce some of the drag. He mentioned that less drag would allow the plane to fly a little faster in the up line and I assume that less drag will increase flight times a tad also. Cutting holes will be the only change made to the plane for next week.

Thanks again for getting involved in this problem.
Nov 06, 2019, 07:05 AM
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Petefoss's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ampbomber
Finspeed,

Had a great time at our indoor session yesterday. 10 flights were made by several pilots. Big smiles on their faces since they fly only Clicks and this setup blows their minds. All flights were about 5 minutes 20 sec with batteries showing 9 to 15 % when placed on charge.
It's really delightful to fly. Compared to my lightened Clik (106 g) it's amazing. Now if the power system wasn't so expensive for such amazing capability.

Pete
Nov 07, 2019, 04:49 PM
Risto Hölttä - F3A/P Team FIN
Finnspeed's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ampbomber
OK. BTW, when will the voltage boosters be back in stock?

Thanks
I have just sent out a batch of picoBoosts this Monday which means they should appear back in stock very soon.
Nov 13, 2019, 09:49 AM
in pursuit of low wing loading
Gordon Johnson's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finnspeed
Hmmm, if shortening the wires does not help and the voltage really drops that fast on the battery terminals, the battery may just be weak. Check the connector as well.

I don't know which brand of batteries you are using but I have heard reports that the narrow shape 1S batteries that come with the small white connector integrated, often have pretty high internal resistance regardless of what the C-rating is.

This is the biggest challenge in 1S F3P planes. You don't have much margin in the voltage and since everything must be light, the batteries are very small too.
I have a computer controlled battery tester. Same brand as George has. I can't say I've tested every battery out there. What I've found when doing discharge tests is some of the UMX narrow cells with the plugs perform well, and others perform worse. That's why they have to be tested. And, sometimes narrow cells from the same manufacturer but different capacities will perform differently. I also test wide cells. It depends on the application and what's available.

The battery tester I use is this one from WestMountainRadio.
https://www.dxengineering.com/search...rder=Ascending

I got mine when they first came out, maybe 8 or more years ago. At that time it couldn't test at super low discharge rates, so I paid them to modify it so it could do low rates before shipping it to me. I believe that it now can do the low discharge rates as a standard feature.

I also find the discharge tester useful for batteries which might be getting a bit old and feel to me like they are not performing. I put them on the tester and it takes the guesswork out of it. If the battery of interest isn't up to snuff any more according to the test, it gets disposed of.

I find this a very useful piece of equipment. I don't know if there are other battery test products out there. But, this one does everything I need it to do.
Nov 13, 2019, 10:01 AM
in pursuit of low wing loading
Gordon Johnson's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Petefoss
It's really delightful to fly. Compared to my lightened Clik (106 g) it's amazing. Now if the power system wasn't so expensive for such amazing capability.

Pete
Pete, when are you going to take the plunge and build your own? Lets see, composites plastic engineer. This should be right up your alley.

Yup, the propulsion system is a major portion of the price of entry for one of these planes.
Nov 13, 2019, 10:20 AM
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crossup's Avatar
I was just thinking about asking you about this- lloks like a great tool for any serious F3P pilot and anyone with a lot of lipos in general.
Nov 13, 2019, 11:23 AM
Registered User
Ampbomber's Avatar
Don't have much to say about flight times this week. Freak snow storm here Monday (8 inches at my place) kept me busy Tuesday. I'll try again next week.

Yes, I could not live without my West Mountain discharger.
Nov 19, 2019, 08:09 PM
Registered User
Ampbomber's Avatar
Got 6 flights in today. Two flights recorded were 5 min 45 seconds with 9 % and 5 min 51 sec with 8% on cells when placed on charge.The cells are 120 Hyperion G3. The Arena and my basement are cold so I charge the cells before flight and warm them with hands and mouth I assume warming the cells helps.

Also, made the holes in the drag brakes. Hoping that a contest flier shows up during the holidays for some evaluation of how it flies. For me, it flies great!

Would have tested the 160 Hyperion G5 cell but the pos lead to the pico boost broke. Back at it in 2 weeks.
Nov 20, 2019, 08:01 AM
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crossup's Avatar
George, Lipo temp has a very large impact on their performance.
Recent research has proven that issues with degradation can be mitigated by using elevated temps with modified chemistry. Super high rate charging is being done by having heaters IN cells to get them up to 160 deg, which allows charge rates of 10-20C with no degradation. Same is true of discharge, but of course its a thin line between max performance temp and thermal runaway.

Unfortunately our "standard" lipos do not like temps over 115 deg and for longevity should be used at 85 deg.
https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/...w_temperatures

For our use I believe cells at 85-95 deg gives the best power good. FYI, there is a reason Hyperion sells heated Lipo bags.

You will love the G5 160s, with an Ermolin drive they nearly double flight time over 120s. G7 180s are insanely punchy the whole flight but when they go, there is nothing left so set your timer. The increased weight is not noticeable to me.


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