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Feb 10, 2020, 08:44 AM
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Iflyrc_vic's Avatar

Eflite V-Tail Manual


Here is a copy of the manual for the Bonanza from Eflite with the V-Tail option. You may get some ideas on setting up the VQ model from this manual.
-Vic
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Feb 10, 2020, 10:20 AM
dbc
dbc
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Thanks Vic. I didn’t have any real problems setting it up, and it’s done pretty much like the E-Flite plane calls for.

I’m a little skeptical of the recommended control throws - they are so minimal it might not allow enough throw to trim the plane on maiden - or even control it. I had this happen once before so usually use more than recommended throws for the maiden.

I’ve done enough over the years where the maidens are no longer much concern. But this one, with the unusual control surfaces, might cause a little anxiety!
Last edited by dbc; Feb 10, 2020 at 10:30 AM.
Feb 11, 2020, 05:04 PM
dbc
dbc
Registered User
On the maiden takeoff run, right before rotation, the nose gear just collapsed. This was on my normal smooth asphalt strip.

Looks to be very little factory glue on the steering block mount - several of the surfaces had none at all.

I fabricated a six piece light ply replacement, got it installed and the epoxy drying.

And the Bonanza adventure continues..........
Last edited by dbc; Feb 11, 2020 at 05:22 PM.
Feb 11, 2020, 05:58 PM
3 Blades is Better Than 2!
kman24's Avatar
Thread OP
Looks like they got really stingy on the glue with yours

Good thing you caught it before leaving the ground

Kman
Mar 07, 2020, 11:43 PM
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Hi DBC,
Iím restoring an old Phoenix Pilatus PC21 that was designed for retracts but was converted to fixed gear for simplicity and durability. I belong to clubs with asphalt and grass and installed an Aerostar 80 amp RVS (reversing) ESC for reverse thrust braking on asphalt. This will keep her on the tarmac and not in the overrun.

She has been maidened and upgrades are continuing.

I am at the West Pasco Model Pilots Association field in Odessa. You fly off the old Brooksville runway?
Mar 08, 2020, 10:08 AM
dbc
dbc
Registered User
I’ve used the reverse thrust feature with great results in a couple of heavier Phoenix planes. It’s a feature in the newest line of Hobbywing FlyFun ESCs, too.

I fly at home, just go out my back door. I live in a semi-rural area with a good bit of open space around me and a paved street with almost no auto usage for a strip. Weather and time permitting, I fly a lot because it’s so easy and quick. I’ve never had to transport planes to fly.

I know.....I’m spoiled by this.

Dave
Mar 08, 2020, 01:13 PM
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Good luck with your maiden flight!
Mar 08, 2020, 03:57 PM
dbc
dbc
Registered User
Bonanza has already been flown. I didnít like how it flew - mostly due I think to the V tail.

Noticeable coupling between pitch and roll made it feel slightly vague and imprecise. Iím told using some differential in the rudder axis helps cure this and I was just beginning to experiment with it. I did some minor damage to the plane during a crosswind landing - and this, combined with the covering issues, convinced me to ďretireĒ the Bonanza.

All VQ planes have this thick, sticky-backed, printed covering, and it quickly looks like like crap when exposed to the sun. Thereís just no justification for using such inferior covering on planes at this price point. Itís an embarrassment to see the plane after only 30 seconds in the sun. I knew this going in as I had one previous VQ model, the Tri-Pacer, that had the very same issues. I had hoped it was improved from my Tri-Pacer several years ago, but itís not.
Mar 12, 2020, 02:28 PM
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Reehoe's Avatar
So sad to hear you had to retire the model. Can you tell us if a pitch command induced roll, or a roll command induced pitch, yaw, etc.?

I am very curious as to the recommended throws, total tail volume and angles of the tail on this V-tailed version. All of these things need to be right and balanced. I have done extensive design/building/flight testing of v tails, and I can say this with confidence: a properly designed and set up v tail will fly extremely well. Look at the Top Flite V Bonanza, ESM, Eflite, etc. Along with countless glider designs. This is not to say that you set yours up incorrectly... it just makes me wonder if this is why this design has the 40 degree angle versus the 33... perhaps an effort to reduce yaw coupling to pitch.

The 2 biggest troubles that I have encountered with Bonanza v tails are insufficient stabilizer volume and too much throw for each function. On Bonanza models, the throws will be much less than you are used to seeing. The tail has very strong control authority, and with too much throw they become sensitive ( Often being mistaken for an aft CG) and it will introduce yaw/pitch coupling, usually resulting in a pitch down and maybe a bit of roll upon hard rudder usage. Smaller control throws really are key and possibly some ruddervator differential, at least in my amateur designing and testing. I designed what I call the "Foamanza", and it flew well but has a few of these issues. Less throw and rudder function differential (similar to ailerons differential) made a good model great. Flies like a P-51 now.

I will be getting this model soon and will look into this. I thought I read somewhere on here that the instructions showed an elevator-only install on the tail. Is that correct? I love this model and will find the sweet spot! Thank you VQ for giving us a V Bonanza in this size.
Mar 12, 2020, 04:54 PM
dbc
dbc
Registered User
Yes, the instructions show elevator only control with the tail surfaces coupled and controlled by a single servo. You are left on your own to set up the V tail.

Yaw - left or right - seemed to always induce down pitch and maybe some roll in the command direction. I had no idea about control throws and might have used excessive ones. It did seem very sensitive and that might have increased the impression of instability. The plane just never felt properly under control and predictable to control input.

If the plane had better covering, I would spend some time to repair it and experiment with it some more. But it just looks so pathetic in the sun that I have no further desire to mess with it. Which is a shame; I’ve long wanted a V tail Bonanza in this size but it’s going to have to come from someone other than VQ.

Some others seem to have “made peace” with the covering and just accept it. If you can do this, and are up for experimentation with the setup, maybe you can get some satisfaction from this plane.
Mar 12, 2020, 05:02 PM
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Reehoe's Avatar
By the way, I love what you did with the gear. It looked great!
Mar 12, 2020, 05:26 PM
dbc
dbc
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Thanks. Realistic looks are very important to me with these GA planes and getting the Bonanza down closer to the ground near where it belongs made a world of difference in the realism- to me at least.

I wish I had the benefit of your counsel before flying the Bonanza. With your expertise I might have avoided or at least minimized the control problems. But I’d still be stuck with the saggy covering.
Last edited by dbc; Mar 12, 2020 at 05:42 PM.
Mar 12, 2020, 06:53 PM
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Reehoe's Avatar
Maybe you can get a buddy to cover it in Monocote! I will be doing a custom scheme on mine. For what its worth, I am a Bonanza nut job. I have every single rc model of this plane ever modelled, and still had to scratch build a few. During childhood, my late father had several V Bonanzas through the years... he even had an original 1947 model before I was born. I have studied them forever and learned the history of the airframes, tail versions and mods. After reading on the history of Walter Beech, I learned that the original design and prototype of the T-34 Mentor was in V tail configuration!

Later years of the V Bonanza had larger stabilizers that then necessitated the so called need of leading edge cuffs to reinforce attachment to the fuse (in short). All really caused by pilots getting out of the approved envelope. The V Bonanza is the most studied and tested airplane by the FAA over many decades due to the mystique of the V tail and the questions it raised. In the end, it's safety record matched straight tail Bonanzas. A fascinating history in aviation and to this day a beauty.

Sorry, like I said I'm a nut!
Last edited by Reehoe; Mar 12, 2020 at 07:03 PM.
Mar 12, 2020, 07:48 PM
DFS#000178
Rampage's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbc
Bonanza has already been flown. I didnít like how it flew - mostly due I think to the V tail. .
Fly it a little nose heavy.

It made a world of difference with my EFlite, which also has the V-tail. It also almost completely got rid of the 'Bonanza Boogie'.
Mar 12, 2020, 07:53 PM
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Reehoe's Avatar
Rampage, did you have any uncommanded down pitch when pushing rudder on your Eflite? Just curious as I never flew one.


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