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Feb 17, 2017, 10:44 AM
dare to thermal
Thread OP
Contest

New ideas for F3J


Hi,

there are lots of discussions concerning contests and how to attract new pilots.
Same discussion over here in Germany, but combined with the total lack of soaring contests.
We have started a new series of "minimum effort" F3J contests, based on a series flown since 4y around Frankfurt. We call it "sommerliga" / "summerleague"! http://sommerliga.org/ (german only)

What does "minimum effort" means:
1. we will use a very strong highstart for the launch, which allows at least 100m hight, with more wind up to 180m.
2. You donīt need a team to particpate. The groups at each lane have to launch and take their time by themselves.
3. short travel times and only one-day contests
4. up to 25/30 contestants
5. no fly-offs and no dropped rounds
It should be a contest with a low threshold to enter.
If you need some training before, we will help with local contest clinics.

btw. the highstart is made of 7,3m rubber "scale" bungee from EMC-Vega (force is about [email protected]% stretch) and 75m line.
in the X3 thread you can see whatīs possible on the line if you have the skills.. (practice only!)

/Bernd

a few inpressions from a contest in 2013
F3j-Wettbewerb 2013 in Hüttenberg [Trailer] (3 min 16 sec)
Last edited by Bernd Brunner; May 16, 2018 at 02:30 PM.
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Feb 18, 2017, 03:43 AM
Registered User
coolmove's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernd Brunner
We have started a new series of "minimum effort" F3J contests,
1. we will use a very strong highstart for the launch, which allows at least 100m hight, with more wind up to 180m.

btw. the highstart is made of 7,3m rubber bungee (force is about [email protected]% stretch) and 75m line.
Minimum effort is to take a 7,3 m rubber bungee and 7,5 m line.
Enough for thermal soaring
Feb 18, 2017, 04:56 AM
Registered User
Tuomo's Avatar
I fly all the time from 7m bungee, but I would not want to use it in competition.
Feb 18, 2017, 09:14 AM
JimN8UAY
Jimn8uay's Avatar
I like the idea. Might get me back into competitive playing if the set up is simplified along with the exercise of hiking for the chute.
We'll have to play with it a bit around here and see how it works.
Sources for bungees?

Jim C
Feb 18, 2017, 11:11 AM
Registered User
Tuomo's Avatar
EMC-Vega
Feb 18, 2017, 01:18 PM
Registered User
Aaro's Avatar
Hi,

We use to have 7 m strong bungee and about 25 m line. In calm, you get about 60-70 m altitude, in wind it is possible to launch to +90 meters. Short bungee is easy to transport and fast to set up. In video a launch with such setup is shown. If I remember right, the altitude of the camera drone was 50 meters.

bungee (0 min 8 sec)


Aaro

Quote:
Originally Posted by coolmove
Minimum effort is to take a 7,3 m rubber bungee and 7,5 m line.
Enough for thermal soaring
Feb 18, 2017, 03:45 PM
Registered User
...
Last edited by cobeng; Feb 19, 2017 at 12:38 AM. Reason: Edited
Feb 18, 2017, 05:28 PM
dare to thermal
Thread OP
@cobeng(man without name and location...) : please donīt hijack the thread! What i have described in the first post, is something we have done in the last few years. Itīs a working contest format. I there is a contest with your set of rules, please let me know....
@yes everyone is flying F3J models from short bungees - so what.
Feb 19, 2017, 03:18 AM
Registered User
Aaro's Avatar
Hi,

This is true. Back to the topic, I watched the video you linked and that made me think the bungee launch in competition. With long line, it is possible and even feasible to circle, but some extra space is then needed to avoid lines crossing? Do you use 10 m lanes or larger? And do you start the flight time like in F3J, after release from line? The circle tow can be quite long.

Aaro

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernd Brunner
@yes everyone is flying F3J models from short bungees - so what.
Feb 19, 2017, 03:47 AM
dare to thermal
Thread OP
Hi Aaro, the distance between lanes is hopefully a bit mor than 10m, but not that much that circles on tow are possible and too dangerous. Btw: itīs normally not necessary,
Timing is according F3J. Cause itīs not an euro contest with lotīs of experts always flying close to 10min, but an more ore less local contest, and with definitely lower height after launch itīs more difficult to fly the full time. It might be an stretegic option to wait a few seconds before tow and then try to eg circle on tow to gain more height ;-)

Iīm a bit surprised about the discussion about the launch. Yes its more difficult to fly 10min and yes itīs a game.

/Bernd
Feb 19, 2017, 04:39 AM
Registered User
Tuomo's Avatar
[QUOTE=Bernd Brunner;36916392]Hi Aaro, the distance between lanes is hopefully a bit mor than 10m, but not that much that circles on tow are possible and too dangerous. Btw: itīs normally not necessary,

As you can see from Aaro's video, launching with 25m of line is straight and fast. I doubt anyone would dare circle tow with such a short line. Also veering from side to side is not needed, it takes time, increases risk of pop off, and rarely drastically increases tension (as it does when using a longer line). We just loo for a good tension from hand to zoom, and try maximise the altitude gained in zoom.

Short line is nice because side wind or occasional thermals do not take the parachute too far. 60-90m is plenty of altitude for a good practice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernd Brunner
Iīm a bit surprised about the discussion about the launch. Yes its more difficult to fly 10min and yes itīs a game.
At this stage of development I am strictly against all rue changes in F3J. We have quickly evolving F5J if you are interested in flying up from low altitude launches. Current F3J with 2 man tows is a very nice class, provided you can organize large enough competitions to form teams. The fun of teamwork is something that is lacking from F5J.
Feb 19, 2017, 04:53 AM
dare to thermal
Thread OP
Sorry, we donīt want to change current F3J rules, but want to reduce the initial barriers to enter a contest for new pilots and clubs. Interest is great and we have new pilots every time. This is what counts for me.

And again, we donīt talk about PRACTICE

/Bernd
F5J is nothing iīm interested in: i really hate this trend to an electric assisted life.
Feb 19, 2017, 08:41 AM
In F3J size does matter!
roydor's Avatar
I like this format, makes things easy for new pilots.

Short bungy can be a lot of fun but not suitable for beginners as it is a very quick and violent start for beginners. Long bungys like shown here are relatively calmer.

As I understand, this is a format for clubs and not a format for the die hard competitor which always looks at how to optimize. This is a fantastic format to get people to compete without the need for expensive equipment and super high end optimized starts.

I hope more clubs around the world would pick this format up in order to build up some of the interest in J models.

Roy
Feb 19, 2017, 10:52 AM
Team Hello Kitty
SoaringDude's Avatar
I like the idea of bungee-related competition as I practice with a bungee often. However in my club experience in Northern Calif there are very few pilots who even want to give it a try. In my own club of 40-50 active pilots only 3 will use a bungee. Many have arm issues, others are afraid they will damage their planes.

So I don't see bungee competition as a way to attract new pilots, at least not in my area. You would attract more new pilots by using normal winches and eliminating teams by going to a simple modified man-on-man format. Have pilots line up behind the winches and launch in rapid succession.

Chris
Feb 20, 2017, 01:51 PM
Registered User
Tuomo's Avatar
What do you do when wind turns and launch is sidewind or even downwind? In normal F3J competition this is not a problem, but it is much more complicated when many bungees are side by side. I can imagine that reflights are interesting...


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