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This thread is privately moderated by phil alvirez, who may elect to delete unwanted replies.
Feb 17, 2017, 08:51 AM
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Discussion

the ideal connector for radios


what is the ideal connector for receivers, and another for batteries/motors/esc ?
i started a discussion on this subject. here is the thread: https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...they-should-be
and if any1 wants to cooperate with ideas, or just follow what is happening, you are welcome here.
i am asking everybody to bring your ideas of the ideal connector for receivers, and another for batteries/esc/motor.
perhaps this way we may find something better, and this may influence an adventurous manufacturer to make them.


my idea is based on something like this:

1.-for small 1s that fit into receivers:
http://www.radicalrc.com/item/DEANS-...ack-Set-101273
these have positive contact through a large area, and fit tight-you have to push or pull hard to get them in.
(please notice that am not proposing to use the small deans for receivers, am just showing them to see how are they designed)


2.-for larger that fit into motors, esc, and batteries, some1 like these: http://wsdeans.com/products/plugs/ULTRA-PLUG2.jpg
(again, although these are as close as i can think to ideal, perhaps some1 may come with an even better idea
like having a grip like these: https://hobbyking.com/en_us/nylon-t-...airs-20pc.html )

april 3 2017>>>by the way, after trying as many ideas as i could, regarding the problem of releasing and installing the deans, (or any type) i have come with the most practical solution: it is using 2 sets of locking pliers 5" long, 1 at each end of the connectors, 1 holding 1 part of the deans from under, and the other from above, so dont block the hands,and pushing them away. it works! no need of special (and expensive) equipment. try it. something like these: http://www.ebay.ca/itm/IRWIN-VISE-GR...YAAOxy-W9SQhWS you may find them at a hardware store or even better, at dollarama for way less.



so, what is your idea?

with servos, the connectors that we use are weak, and can get loose-it has happened to me.
and look at the way batteries connect to the esc or esc to motor-likewise the motors . on those the area in contact is minimal and does not make much pressure. like these: https://hobbyking.com/en_us/8mm-gold...s-12-pack.html
i know, there is so much money invested that it may not change. but why not try? it may work. this is the way many ideas have become a reality.
Last edited by phil alvirez; May 06, 2017 at 05:29 PM.
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Feb 23, 2017, 02:12 PM
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There was at least one thread were the resistance of various connectors was tested. The Deans tested higher than many of the bullet-style connectors.
Feb 23, 2017, 04:34 PM
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Thread OP

interesting


any chance to see those figures? or, where is the link ?
any1 can tell anything but is worthless if dont bring proof.

thanks
Last edited by phil alvirez; Feb 24, 2017 at 03:01 AM.
Feb 24, 2017, 03:24 AM
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See reply #37 by Wayne Giles in the thread below:
http://www.rcmf.co.uk/4um/electric-r...ations-please/

Excerpt from Giles' chart:

ST 7.4 milliOhms
Micro Dean 2.2 milliOhms
2mm Gold 2.1 milliOhms
3.5mm Gold 0.47 milliOhms
4mm Gold 0.54 milliOhms
5.5mm Gld Solid 0.11 milliOhms
Deans 0.85 milliOhms
Multiplex Power 1.05 milliOhms
MPX High Dens. 0.60 milliOhms
Power Pole 0.48 milliOhms
XT60 0.53 milliOhms
HK 3.5mm Solid 0.17 milliOhms
Feb 24, 2017, 03:45 AM
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data


great, thanks. that is the kind of data i was asking for. and checking into the chart i see that there are figures that help to see what kind of load are they subject to. will study it and bring my comments later. thanks again for this valuable data.
Last edited by phil alvirez; Feb 24, 2017 at 03:52 AM.
Feb 24, 2017, 03:57 AM
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chart


thanks. i saw it. could you please bring the whole chart? somehow i cant. then we can discuss it in detail.
the link shows 'not found'
Feb 24, 2017, 04:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phil alvirez
thanks. i saw it. could you please bring the whole chart? somehow i cant. then we can discuss it in detail.
the link shows 'not found'
I tested the link and it worked for me so I don't know what is wrong. There are a lot of posts that may be of interest in that thread besides the chart.

I did a screen capture of the chart and here it is.
Feb 24, 2017, 04:12 AM
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terrific


thank you very much. how we should interprete those figures?
he also said that : " I would go for the XT60 connector for anything up to 60A continuous/ 80A surge.
I did a set of measurements some 18 months ago on connectors (See table below) before XT connectors, but have since measured them and obtained a figure of 0.53milliohms/pole compared to most Deans clones of about 0.75 - 0.85milliohms."
this is clear evidence that shows a big difference-for 60A continuous.
Last edited by phil alvirez; Feb 24, 2017 at 11:13 AM.
Feb 24, 2017, 04:21 AM
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comparison


what i see is this:

-------------------R---------curr-------v drop-------W
deans----------.85---------45----------.08----------3.44
3.5 gold-------.47---------40-----------.04----------1.5
(i am comparing the 3.5 because is what i have been using on all my equipment)
what dont understand is why if deans have a larger area in contact, we get those figures. shouldnt be that with a larger area we have to get better figures? or could be that it is not the design, but there are other factors that influence the results, like the quality of the materials?
that the surfaces are not gold plated, for instance?
Last edited by phil alvirez; Feb 24, 2017 at 04:27 AM.
Feb 24, 2017, 06:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phil alvirez
what i see is this:

-------------------R---------curr-------v drop-------W
deans----------.85---------45----------.08----------3.44
3.5 gold-------.47---------40-----------.04----------1.5
(i am comparing the 3.5 because is what i have been using on all my equipment)
what dont understand is why if deans have a larger area in contact, we get those figures. shouldnt be that with a larger area we have to get better figures? or could be that it is not the design, but there are other factors that influence the results, like the quality of the materials?
that the surfaces are not gold plated, for instance?
I agree that all things being equal you would expect the contacts with the larger area to have the lower resistances.

However if you look at a supposedly smooth contact surface using an electron microscope the surface looks like a bunch of peaks and valleys. I suspect that the actual contact area depends on the force pushing the contact areas together and the mechanical geometry of the contacts as they touch each other. It is not just the total force squeezing the contacts together but also the shape of the contacts that may allow for higher pressures squeezing the peaks and valleys together in some areas of the contacts. I suspect that what may be happening is that the actual contact area for the Deans may turn out to be smaller than the actual contact area of the 3.5mm connector.

Reference:
https://materion.com/~/media/Files/P...ct%20Force.pdf
Last edited by jbeanelliott; Feb 24, 2017 at 07:01 AM.
Feb 24, 2017, 08:26 AM
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facts


Quote:
Originally Posted by jbeanelliott
I agree that all things being equal you would expect the contacts with the larger area to have the lower resistances.

However if you look at a supposedly smooth contact surface using an electron microscope the surface looks like a bunch of peaks and valleys. I suspect that the actual contact area depends on the force pushing the contact areas together and the mechanical geometry of the contacts as they touch each other. It is not just the total force squeezing the contacts together but also the shape of the contacts that may allow for higher pressures squeezing the peaks and valleys together in some areas of the contacts. I suspect that what may be happening is that the actual contact area for the Deans may turn out to be smaller than the actual contact area of the 3.5mm connector.

Reference:
https://materion.com/~/media/Files/P...ct%20Force.pdf
thank you for the great input and link. in an ideal world, a larger area provides more surface through which electricity flows, therefore better contact, but i must admit that it also depends on how really that area gets in touch. still, deans flat surfaces 'seem' to provide better contact, if a flat surface is really flat-that, i think it is. on the other hand, other factors may be equally, or even more important, such as the kind of material. in this case, brass or gold. if deans are made of brass, and the others are solid brass, covered with gold, then these may provide a better contact, not due to having a smaller area, but to the materials used. and if we consider why all electronics are gold plated due to that it is the only metal that does not rust, there you have the answer.
not only that, when a metal is applied by electrolysis, the surface is way more smooth, increasing the efficiency enormously.
so, at the end of the day, the material -and how is applied-may be the determining factor that makes the cylindrical contacts more efficient, not the design.
i wonder how deans would do if were gold plated too? but this is just speculation, and dont think anybody will go that far, so we have to live with facts. and the facts are that cylindrical contacts are more effective. this is an example where practicality overcomes theory by the way it is applied.
Feb 24, 2017, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phil alvirez
<snip>
i wonder how deans would do if were gold plated too?
<snip>
I thought that at least some Deans connectors are gold plated?
See:
https://www.jaycar.com.au/deans-styl...e-set/p/PT4450
Last edited by jbeanelliott; Feb 24, 2017 at 09:22 AM.
Feb 24, 2017, 09:56 AM
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[QUOTE=phil alvirez;36955952]
<snip>
and if we consider why all electronics are gold plated due to that it is the only metal that does not rust, there you have the answer.
<snip>

Not all electronic connectors are gold plated. Other plating metals include silver, nickel, beryllium copper and tin.

As a side note the link below discusses gold versus silver contacts:
http://machinedesign.com/archive/if-...necessarily-so

Excerpt:

The big plus for gold is that it doesn't corrode or tarnish. However, its higher cost is a disadvantage, and it's less conductive than silver.

Another problem with gold contacts is the potential for oxidation from organic compounds, simple versions of which are present in the atmosphere. In vapor form, they can be absorbed by the gold contact surface. Sliding or fretting between contacts causes a chemical reaction between the gold, which acts as a catalyst, and organic compounds. This reaction produces long-chain compounds or polymers.

One way to get around these drawbacks is to place a thin gold layer over a copper contact. Doing so demands barrier plating. Due to the cost of gold, the plating is usually thin, on the order of 1 to 2 microns. Without a barrier between the two materials, copper can migrate to the gold surface, where the exposed copper begins to oxidize forming a copper-oxide layer that acts as an insulator. The barrier layer is usually nickel.

Silver contacts, on the other hand, need no such barrier because the silver plating is much thicker, 2 to 5 microns. A barrier also isn't necessary in gold over silver contacts because the silver is thick enough to act as a barrier.

Some applications such as high-reliability edge-connectors require 30 microns of gold plating by specification. The thick plating is needed because of the high-force, high-wear nature of insertions and disconnections. However, a 30-micron gold plating isn't reasonable for switch contacts. First, a plating of this thickness would eliminate the spring characteristics of the contacts, and there just isn't enough room for such a thick plating. Moreover, a switch with 30 microns of gold on the contacts would be more expensive.

Soft mechanical wear is another disadvantage of using gold. It's much softer than silver or silver alloys and gold wears much easier by sliding friction.
Last edited by jbeanelliott; Feb 26, 2017 at 07:33 PM.
Feb 24, 2017, 10:18 AM
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Thread OP

gold or silver


great. thanks again for the great input.


about silver instead: again, are there silver plated deans style connectors? if so, where?
Last edited by phil alvirez; Feb 24, 2017 at 12:13 PM.
Feb 24, 2017, 10:24 AM
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Thread OP

another product


and what about these? it says gold plated and have a great grip: https://www.amazon.ca/Traxxas-3060-F...=traxxas+plugs


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