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Feb 13, 2017, 04:31 PM
Tu ne cede malis
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South Australia: Renewable Energy Crash Test Dummy


Climate Hysteria harms industry, cities, states/provinces, and rate payers...

Quote:
Rolling blackouts ordered in Adelaide as city swelters

Widespread power blackouts were imposed across Adelaide and parts of South Australia with heatwave conditions forcing authorities to impose load shedding.

About 40,000 properties were without electricity supplies for about 30 minutes because of what SA Power Networks said was a direction by the Australian Energy Market Regulator.

The temperature was still above 40C when the rolling blackouts began at 6.30pm to conserve supplies as residents sought relief with air conditioners.
Last year they said the blackouts weren't in any way related to shutting down standard plant and that it wouldn't happen again.
Feb 13, 2017, 04:37 PM
Tu ne cede malis
MtnGoat's Avatar
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And of course the little people pay, getting less of everything else they'd prefer to spend their money on than some commodity electrons from a boutique but fashionable source, exactly the same as any electrons formerly pushed from a coal fired plant.



Here's what your uncontrollable power output looks like when it's weather dependent


http://joannenova.com.au/2017/02/rol...a-in-40c-heat/
Feb 13, 2017, 04:40 PM
Registered User
I think a telling statement made on TV was that there was generation capacity available, but they didn't have authorisation to fire it up.

The market price is controlled by the supply, and they limit that to keep the price in the range that they want it. Unfortunately in Australia, our current electricity charges have nothing to do with how much it costs to produce and transmit and everything to do with ROI on infrastructure investment.

A place I used to work had 4 generators until one failed. Were were not in any rush to bring the 4th back into service as we were making more profit at 3/4th capacity than at full capacity.
Feb 13, 2017, 04:43 PM
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They've been aided in these machinations by the political necessity of pretending that 'green' power is economically feasible, but they do that by keeping other prices high.

It is *not* cheaper to get 1,000 MW of 24/7/365 power no matter what the weather via wind turbines, rather than evil hydrocarbon combustion....unless you screw with the system at all levels to increase the cost of the carbon driven electron pumps.

Nation after nation which implements these 'renewable' schemes sees energy prices rise and reliability fall. An inconvenient truth.
Feb 13, 2017, 05:05 PM
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.....
Feb 13, 2017, 05:10 PM
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As usual your critique is fatally flawed....but it fits *your* narrative.

Without the 'green' power push, the wind turbines wouldn't even be in place, or tied in, or *exist*. Without them, there would be no coordinator determining when to bring up old plant...it would already be online providing the power.

All these machinations exist in the first place because the entire grid has been reworked to accommodate 'green' power.

The 'problems in the market' are the result of govt action screwing with the market, also in order to push 'green' power.

And lastly, let's note your excuse laden article is about *last years* blackouts, not the one a couple days ago from the OP.
Last edited by MtnGoat; Feb 13, 2017 at 05:15 PM.
Feb 13, 2017, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schrott
.....
And.....scene. I should have quoted you for posterity.

This makes two blackouts in less than 365 days caused by events due to integrating wind turbines, and the distortions necessary to pretend they are viable from regulatory changes to what standard plant is spun up and producing...not to mention taking old plants out and thus undermining the base load capacity.

But at least rate payers are holding the bag.
Feb 13, 2017, 05:38 PM
I smell lithium now
D B Cooper's Avatar
I bet gas generators are selling well there, or soon will be. Air conditioning would be nice the next time it's 104 out.
Feb 13, 2017, 05:43 PM
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I recognized my mistake and corrected it.

But you leave out was does not fit your narrative.

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/s...99f3449f1cb2d6

Apparently South Australia has enough back up and could have dealt with the low wind and extreme demand. The company/organization responsible for energy production failed to bring on a second NG powered Turbine/Generator, which would have prevented the black outs.

Its not a failure of the wind turbines, but a management failure.
1. they neglected the weather forecast, to prepare
2. They did not react properly when the shortage occurred
3. One has to question, why they do not have automatic start up programs for the back up systems.

Naturally there is a mayor organizational problem with the grid system. The states are not interconnected and are unable to exchange energy. How that is done you can see in Europe.
Feb 13, 2017, 05:46 PM
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Ah, right. The fact that there is a coordinator who needs to deal with wind turbines, the fact that plants are offline because of the wind turbines, the market controls necessary to deal with the load balancing due to turbines....none of that is due to wind turbines.

The only changes due to the installation and subsidy of wind turbines are all the changes made due to the installation and subsidy of wind turbines.

Tell us how their presence has nothing to do with outcomes from their presence.

You don't get it, do you. It doesn't *matter* if it was 'management'. The problems exist because the wind turbines exist. No wind turbines, no mistakes managing them.

A titanic waste of money for nothing but environmental fanaticism powered by polluted science. Millions of people wasting money on electricity they could be spending on other things.
Feb 13, 2017, 05:51 PM
I hate propellors
emufingers's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by MtnGoat
As usual your critique is fatally flawed....but it fits *your* narrative.

Without the 'green' power push, the wind turbines wouldn't even be in place, or tied in, or *exist*. Without them, there would be no coordinator determining when to bring up old plant...it would already be online providing the power.

All these machinations exist in the first place because the entire grid has been reworked to accommodate 'green' power.

The 'problems in the market' are the result of govt action screwing with the market, also in order to push 'green' power.

And lastly, let's note your excuse laden article is about *last years* blackouts, not the one a couple days ago from the OP.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MtnGoat
And.....scene. I should have quoted you for posterity.

This makes two blackouts in less than 365 days caused by events due to integrating wind turbines, and the distortions necessary to pretend they are viable from regulatory changes to what standard plant is spun up and producing...not to mention taking old plants out and thus undermining the base load capacity.

But at least rate payers are holding the bag.
Goat your are totally misinformed. The first blackout was caused by severe weather damage to the network. The second one was cause due to price gouging by Engie which has failed to maintain its peaking plants which are designed to cut in when wind energy is limited. It was also Engie plant that failed when the first attempt to recover from the weather damage was made last year and another unit that failed in country SA prolonging the recovery.. Engie is a multinational company that trades off sales of gas purchased on the gas futures market against profiteering by withholding electricity supply to National energy market. This is a clear failure where private enterprise price gouging has resulted in failure to maintain equipment which is designed to balance variable input from wind energy. The problem is monopolisation of segments of the Australian energy market.

Your picture of ice laden wind turbines reflects your bias. Check South Australian weather. Such low temperatures never occur.

Oh well at least you know thatthere is another place beyond your home State.
Feb 13, 2017, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emufingers
Goat your are totally misinformed. The first blackout was caused by severe weather damage to the network. The second one was cause due to price gouging by Engie which has failed to maintain its peaking plants which are designed to cut in when wind energy is limited. It was also Engie plant that failed when the first attempt to recover from the weather damage was made last year and another unit that failed in country SA prolonging the recovery.. Engie is a multinational company that trades off sales of gas purchased on the gas futures market against profiteering by withholding electricity supply to National energy market. This is a clear failure where private enterprise price gouging has resulted in failure to maintain equipment which is designed to balance variable input from wind energy. The problem is monopolisation of segments of the Australian energy market.

Your picture of ice laden wind turbines reflects your bias. Check South Australian weather. Such low temperatures never occur.

Oh well at least you know thatthere is another place beyond your home State.
You mean I'm so totally misinformed that the outcome of tying wind turbines into the system is not related to tying wind turbines into the system?

You're actually going to claim that all the impacts and changes necessary to accommodate wind turbines have nothing to do with installing wind turbines?

A failure to maintain peaking plants used when wind energy is limited has nothing to do with using wind energy?

Explain to us how the standard plants would have failed to provide power if they were already on and not used as backup...because wind turbines.

Attempting to point to everything else going wrong when the cause of all the going wrong is the installation of the wind turbines and all the changes made to use them, is ludicrous. EVERY change made for the use of wind turbines IS caused by the use of wind turbines...from management failures to your claims of price gouging.
Feb 13, 2017, 06:00 PM
Suspended Account
Quote:
Originally Posted by MtnGoat
And.....scene. I should have quoted you for posterity.

This makes two blackouts in less than 365 days caused by events due to integrating wind turbines, and the distortions necessary to pretend they are viable from regulatory changes to what standard plant is spun up and producing...not to mention taking old plants out and thus undermining the base load capacity.

But at least rate payers are holding the bag.
None of these events have anything to do with wind turbine. The first was blown over powermast. No transmission lines no power, no matter how that power gets produced.
The last event was a management failure. If somebody fails to bring the back up generators needed online and fails to consider weather forecasts in their management decisions, than lets call it nicely, human mistake, or idiots running the show.

As much as I understand, the Power Lines are State, the production is private and it seams to me that there is a disconnect and that there is a disconnect between the states.
Feb 13, 2017, 06:01 PM
I hate propellors
emufingers's Avatar
Courtesy of the coal and gas industry. Do you think that it is a coincidence that this article talks of France and South Australia. Take a look at Engie's profile and you will see that the article is fed by information from a French monopoly.


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